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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#81

Post by flatline »

fakescience wrote: post #72
flatline wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or accept the reality that we live in a world that feels the need to kill people. I think it would be swell to not need a military but the reality is that we do. If you have qualms about working for Google as a defense contractor, consider the implications of living in the US (or in all likelihood wherever you happen to reside). Can you justify paying your taxes? Can you justify voting for one of a handful of candida…

Yes, the arguments you outline would also be ways to reduce cognitive dissonance as well ("if we didn't do it, others would"). I don't think Google would stop all wars by not contributing to this project. But Google, and the employees who work at Google, has power - a kind of power that's very, very different from my power as an individual when paying taxes or when voting for a federal employee (behaviors that create…

I basically agree with the last points. As to the drone strikes, I believe there is potential there for decent things. Who is to say these would not grant the power to stop a war by executing key individuals in a scenario where a manned strike would be prohibitive? And yet there is a clear moral hazard of facilitating murder. I’m not wise enough to see where the balance lies. I choose not to work on projects like that but I have trouble condemning some of these things out of hand.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#82

Post by wallace_f »

non_sequitur wrote: post #68
oliveshell wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell of a comparison. “Why can’t they?,” you ask? I’m not saying they can’t , but for a start, how about the fact that we are no longer fighting a world war?

And do you know what it is that really upholds the peace we all love?

Is it arming Saudis to create famine in Yemen?

Or is it that police can drop literal bombs on Black neighborhoods and few will ever know about it?[1]

Or is it that when I'm in the US, I'm more likely to be murdered by police than to be murdered by anyone while in Japan?

Or is it that Chicago has a murder rate 5x that of Somalia?

Or WMD lies? Gulf of Tonkin lies?

You may love this, but does everyone?

Wolf Blitzer said he does: https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is-worried-...

1 - https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/05/18/407665820...

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#83

Post by tmpz22 »

aetherson wrote: post #23

I think that the leaked emails show that one or two execs within Google expressed the optimistic case for the eventual revenue leading from the project. That's how projects happen in companies. Some employee gets excited about the potential of the project and writes emails talking about all the huge numbers that project will post. Most of those emails are wrong. Maven may be wrong at any price or size. But Google's c…

And why are such emails so optimistic and positive? Because of the bonuses that they might lead to. For creating killing machines...

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#84

Post by raz32dust »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

Extending this argument, would you be OK if they helped other countries as well? Or just your country? I am trying to see if you are arguing from a patriotic perspective or saying that there is nothing wrong with military collaboration in general? I don't see why a company should only collaborate preferentially with one country. Either they shouldn't collaborate with any military as a part of some policy, which I don't see as enforceable. Or they should be free to collaborate with any country while not sharing any confidential data with each other. That gets us to corporations truly owning the world.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#85

Post by wallace_f »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #59
killjoywashere wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read The Dictator's Handbook. Then come back and tell me if I'm rambling. https://www.amazon.com/Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Almost-Po...

Now, I'll start by saying i haven't read the book. The description says all leaders are supremely focused on maintaining power. Given that, how can you possibly argue that the US killing anyone it considers a "bad person" without jurisprudence is a moral act?

That highlights the cognitive dissonance in his post:

>There are a lot of bad people in the world, and quite a fraction of countries are ruled by them. Thugs respond to power.

The US is still a good country, with a good government, but it's ridiculous to assume it immune to the same threats of tyranny as every other nation.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#86

Post by taneq »

Iv wrote: post #56
killjoywashere wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> because there's a global cop who's willing to use force to keep the peace Are you talking about UN? If not when was the last time the US took the initiative of a peace-keeping mission? Arguably it would be more than 25 years ago, in the Balkans and even there, it can be argued that this was under the auspices of the UN. In the 70 years you mention, US has often been the lesser evil, but especially since USSR's fall…

> Are you talking about UN?

Clearly they're talking about Team America: World Police.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#87

Post by Cookingboy »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

I kind of agree actually. Humanity has always been at conflict with each other and will be for the foreseeable future.

But for the first time in history we have the tools to conduct intense warfare yet limit collateral damages and minimize cost in both human and material resources.

The engineers who worked on precision strike weapons/smart bombs should be applauded instead of ostracized, in the past we'd just carpet bomb the whole city to get rid of enemies, along with innocent civilians.

Obviously perpetual world peace without the need for weapons will be ideal, but I'm afraid I won't live long enough to see that day, so I'm totally fine with a more pragmatic approach at making war less costly than necessary.

If drones powered by AI can achieve that, I'm all for it.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#88

Post by yipbub »

killjoywashere wrote: post #10
calibas wrote: post #3

Is my moral compass off, or does war profiteering completely violate the whole "don't be evil" thing?

[deleted]

The corrupt global cop that is responsible for most of the harsh environments that spawn extremists?

Edit: adding stuff.

IMO, most anti-progressive views spawn from anti-USA views.

Isn't the US responsible for a lot of the instability in the middle-east and South America?

As I type this I have this vaguely plausible fear that someone in the NSA is flagging my general sentiment and incorrectly labeling me for something or the other even though I'm mostly a pacifist.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#89

Post by non_sequitur »

oliveshell wrote: post #69
non_sequitur wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And do you know what it is that really upholds the peace we all love?

What in God’s name are you asking? You seem confused as to the nature of my comment, which was merely pointing out the massive difference in context between WWII and today.

So your contention is that you have to be fighting a world war in order to help your military? (The post you responded to) There's no other reason to help your military? Really?

Edit: this came out a bit snide so let me elaborate. There are plenty of reasons you may want to help your military when there isn't a world war going on. You can do it for patriotism. You can do it for the economics. You can do it because military applications of technology are actually pretty cool and can lead to more commercial inventions. Or, to the point in my original response, you can do it because you understand deep down that the threat of military force is what underpins the overall fairly secure world that we live in. Look at the military maneuvers and carrier group movements every time two countries get nervous around each other. Despite (or maybe because of) evolution were still just a step away from clubbing our neighbor (or being clubbed) for resources. So yes, a strong military helps support the country Google was founded in and thrived in, and helps Google and every other company in the US be successful, and makes possible the salaries we all make. So there are definitely incentives for those companies to want to make sure their military is properly supported. And no, I'm not a military man.

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