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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell of a comparison. “Why can’t they?,” you ask? I’m not saying they can’t , but for a start, how about the fact that we are no longer fighting a world war?

And do you know what it is that really upholds the peace we all love?

Username checks out. So social media and search are guarantors of world peace? From a non-US perspective, it looks more like SIGINT against allies by treaty.

But hey, it's a private company, no harm, no foul.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#72

To any Google Employees reading this. Don't worry! There are SEVERAL ways you can reduce any cognitive dissonance you might be experiencing as you read more about the evils your company is committing : + rationalization of your own behavior : "I'm not doing this work...I'm working on projects that help people. And ads. But ads are pretty neutral compared to bombing people." + rationalization of others' behavior : "Bo…

Or accept the reality that we live in a world that feels the need to kill people. I think it would be swell to not need a military but the reality is that we do. If you have qualms about working for Google as a defense contractor, consider the implications of living in the US (or in all likelihood wherever you happen to reside). Can you justify paying your taxes? Can you justify voting for one of a handful of candida…

Yes, the arguments you outline would also be ways to reduce cognitive dissonance as well ("if we didn't do it, others would").

I don't think Google would stop all wars by not contributing to this project. But Google, and the employees who work at Google, has power - a kind of power that's very, very different from my power as an individual when paying taxes or when voting for a federal employee (behaviors that create dissonance for me because they contribute to the war machine). I think that power can, and should, be used to prevent wars - not to make them "cleaner". The small attempt at organizing protests made by some employees at the company was a good step, but the only one I have heard of (maybe there have been others?) and I want the people who have the most access to power to start thinking about what they are doing and trying to make more positive changes.

Consume less. Be more mindful of environmental damage. Speak out against the oppressive regimes that help murder people.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#73

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

I think the reason this is a problem is something you stated: Google brands itself as a global company. I’m an American and while I acknowledge the density of intelligent people that work at Google, the fact that they ostensibly have “global interests” makes me concerned that they could do this work safely. Please do not interpret that as some jingoistic platitude. That’s just...reality. While the “company” may be loyal to the US the people who work on these kinds of projects would need to be highly scrutinized.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#74

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

> ... after all, they are loyal only to profit and the USA.

You know what, most employees of Google or Facebook would vehemently disagree, including American citizens.

In fact, say anything like that in Google's internal groups and I'm sure some lawyerfolk will descend down on you, hissing "Would you please stop talking about what you have zero ideas about?" (These days it might even involve HR. After all, saying to half of your coworkers that their work amounts to being a fifth column wouldn't go too well...)

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#76
post #3

Is my moral compass off, or does war profiteering completely violate the whole "don't be evil" thing?

When you are dying perhaps your definitions change.

I hold the controversial (and often dismissed) opinion that Google is dying. I assert they are dying in part because they built a company around search advertising before they knew how to build a company, their initial success gave them the confidence and agency to create structural impediments to their ability to do anything but search advertising. And the search advertising market is not only saturated it is getting more competitive as the easy gains to be made there have already been milked for what they are worth.

I support that opinion on the meager evidence of how they more and more cravenly monetize properties that they previously kept free of such things, their repeated failed attempts at building any other business outside of search that brings anything close to the margins they need for their business model to work, and the lack of 'barriers' to other well funded and durable companies from taking away everything that is special from them. (Bing, Uber, Cruise, Facebook, Apple, Etc.) They get less and less per click and they spend more and more to buy more traffic for their search boxes as documented in their financial statements for the last decade.

They have repeatedly come under attack from outside agencies which see their use of, and exploitation of data about people as either anti-competitive or a violation of basic human rights. Those efforts have resulted in fines and legislation that has been cutting off other ways to monetize the traffic of their place in search.

From that misguided perspective, military contracts make total sense. What they have is a tremendous infrastructure that can be wielded by a relatively small number of engineers to do amazing things. For now, that capability is unique. By turning it from a cost center into a profit center (or even a less cost center) it can help them make the profits they need to keep things rolling. When I was working there I got to see what spending 4 billion dollars a year on infrastructure buys you. It rivals what nation states can field, it rivals what the US government can field. Renting that out to a price insensitive buyer for a unique asset? Sounds like saving yourself from dying to me.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#77

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

I have this queasy feeling that the U.S. is killing people who aren't actually taking up arms against it.

If doing so shaves a few percent off the error rate that's saving innocent lives, but it's also becoming an essential part of a process that kills innocent people?

I'd prefer standing against the slaughter.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#78
post #74

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

> ... after all, they are loyal only to profit and the USA . You know what, most employees of Google or Facebook would vehemently disagree, including American citizens. In fact, say anything like that in Google's internal groups and I'm sure some lawyerfolk will descend down on you, hissing "Would you please stop talking about what you have zero ideas about?" (These days it might even involve HR. After all, saying to…

Source please. I've Not seen anything stating most tech employees are anti Maven.

Blind had a poll and it showed the exact opposite, with a strong majority for Maven.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

The rest of the world vehemently disagrees. Which should be more than enough to know it's not good.

Argumentum ad populum

Ignoring whether or not the world actually does, or how vehemently they might disagree, the rightness of a thing isn't measured at all by how many people think the thing is right.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#80

Gee, if only Google was part of a larger umbrella organization they could have just transferred the project to a separate company and been done with it.

If none of us buy that nonsense, why would Google employees? Alphabet = Google. We all know that.
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