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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#61

Post by rickycook »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #26
kibwen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's whether one views the intersection of profit and war as intrinsically evil, which for most people is a resounding yes. Humans are already good enough at killing and causing misery for each other without adding additional economic incentives into the mix.

But you’re describing some commercial inventive to go to war, which is very different from selling goods and services to the military.

those 2 things are pretty heavily correlated. guns and ammo, military rations manufacturers, and yes creators of technology that support military operations have a huge economic incentive for war

the more war you create, the larger the military, and get larger their ability to spent on “protection” and “defence”

*edit: which is certainly offset pretty substantially by the hit to the countries GDP, because yknow... war is expensive!

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#62

Post by flatline »

fakescience wrote: post #31

To any Google Employees reading this. Don't worry! There are SEVERAL ways you can reduce any cognitive dissonance you might be experiencing as you read more about the evils your company is committing : + rationalization of your own behavior : "I'm not doing this work...I'm working on projects that help people. And ads. But ads are pretty neutral compared to bombing people." + rationalization of others' behavior : "Bo…

Or accept the reality that we live in a world that feels the need to kill people. I think it would be swell to not need a military but the reality is that we do. If you have qualms about working for Google as a defense contractor, consider the implications of living in the US (or in all likelihood wherever you happen to reside). Can you justify paying your taxes? Can you justify voting for one of a handful of candidates for federal government, all of whom are likely to support some form of military action or other?

If a hostile foreign power was to invade your country, what would you want the response to be? To what ends and what efforts should we support the military?

There are many ethically questionable choices we take for granted, especially those of us that live in the West. Everything we consume has a taint of human exploitation, environmental damage, contributes to oppressive regimes that murder people, etc.

Where does it stop?

On the other hand, it sounds like the work Google was doing here was to improve the relative safety of autonomous drone strikes. Oh, but if these strikes remained risky and unreliable, we wouldn’t do them! Believe me, there are a dozen other large defense contractors out there that will implement this if Google doesn’t, so it’s not like it’s a binary proposition.

My point is, working for Google is not the right target on which to pin arguments for or against the ethics of autonomous drone strikes.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#63

Post by jonnybgood »

toweringgoat wrote: post #32
killjoywashere wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

The rest of the world vehemently disagrees. Which should be more than enough to know it's not good.

The rest of the world actually doesn't disagree. Just look at what countries supported and participated in US conflicts. And there are countries who don't support openly, but behind the scenes with intelligence and logistics.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#64

Post by oliveshell »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

Hell of a comparison. “Why can’t they?,” you ask? I’m not saying they can’t, but for a start, how about the fact that we are no longer fighting a world war?

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#65

Post by reacharavindh »

It isn't wrong of Google to work their country's military. If not Google, some other company will take those contracts.

They need to own up the responsibility for their decisions and of course be willing to put on with the media theme that "Google - the company that supplies AI tech to the military with possible usage in war". Denying that is what makes them look even fishier.

I already distrust the company for anything related to privacy. Just one more reason to hate them more.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#66

Post by bmelton »

aunty_helen wrote: post #48
aetherson wrote: post #23

I think that the leaked emails show that one or two execs within Google expressed the optimistic case for the eventual revenue leading from the project. That's how projects happen in companies. Some employee gets excited about the potential of the project and writes emails talking about all the huge numbers that project will post. Most of those emails are wrong. Maven may be wrong at any price or size. But Google's c…

If it was only meant to be a $9 millon project, why take the risk? Google aren't that badly cash strapped.

I don't know any of the details of Maven, but I've done a lot of federal work, and there are a few very good reasons to do insignificant projects, mainly based around past performance.

In order to do any work for the government, you have to show that you have have done the work before to a satisfactory standard, and that you've done it for a type of agency similar to the one requesting proposals for the work.

So, while a given project might be nearly worthless, you do it so that you can say that you did it, so that you're eligible to do it again in the future. The side, but still major benefit of this is that it excludes would-be competitors from getting that qualification, adding barriers to them for getting similar work like this in the future.

Smaller companies, even companies that do exactly, or even only a given thing, often find it hard to get work doing their chosen thing because they don't have these past performances. To get their first qualified performance, they typically have to partner up with a larger company that has qualifications for work at the agency (think Boeing, Raytheon, General Dynamics, etc.), and do small bits of work as a sub-contractor for them until you have enough documented performance to do the work on your own.

Whether or not these particular military contracts are worth much, it opens the door for a larger variety of contracts, which can be worth tens of billions per year.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#67

Post by zeth___ »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

The US is directly and indirectly responsible for more civilian death than any other coutry since the cold war ended.

Basic human decency should be the answer to why you shouldn't help kill even more.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#68

Post by non_sequitur »

oliveshell wrote: post #64
strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

Hell of a comparison. “Why can’t they?,” you ask? I’m not saying they can’t , but for a start, how about the fact that we are no longer fighting a world war?

And do you know what it is that really upholds the peace we all love?

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#69

Post by oliveshell »

non_sequitur wrote: post #68
oliveshell wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell of a comparison. “Why can’t they?,” you ask? I’m not saying they can’t , but for a start, how about the fact that we are no longer fighting a world war?

And do you know what it is that really upholds the peace we all love?

What in God’s name are you asking? You seem confused as to the nature of my comment, which was merely pointing out the massive difference in context between WWII and today.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#70

Post by delbel »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

its wrong because we don't want to one day wake up with autonomous drones flying over our head that can kill us. Upload a video to youtube with the wrong ideaology or keyword that triggered some AI to flag your account? Get ready to be fragged as soon as you step outside. I'd like to opt out please
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