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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#41

Post by mtgx »

joshuamorton wrote: post #25
mtgx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing they removed all mentions of that from their workers' code of conduct then, no? They really dodged a bullet there (get it?) https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/google-dont-be-evil/ Moral compass out of sight, out of mind, is probably what the leadership must have been thinking, especially after the recent protest against Maven from a few thousand employees (which seems to have resulted only in the lead…

Except they didn't, it's still in the code of conduct ;)

It used to be a central piece. Now it barely gets a "Oh, and don't be evil guys, k?" mention in the very last line.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#42

Post by AmericanChopper »

wavefunction wrote: post #34
AmericanChopper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s a very oversimplified opinion. Depending on the alternative, war can certainly be the moral decision. I don’t think you’d find many would who would describe The Unions war on slavery as Evil.

It wasn't a war on Slavery though, as Lincoln only took the extraordinary step of releasing the Emancipation Proclamation late in the war.

That’s a semantic argument. The point is that any of us could come up with an example where the decision to go to war, either offensively or defensively, is clearly not evil.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#43

Post by mikejb »

killjoywashere wrote: post #10
calibas wrote: post #3

Is my moral compass off, or does war profiteering completely violate the whole "don't be evil" thing?

[deleted]

> the world has been a safer place over the last 70 years because there's a global cop who's willing to use force to keep the peace.

No, the world has become a safer place for us because we live in nations with nuclear weapons, and they're a pretty good deterrent for attacks by other nations. The world is still a very unsafe place for many people, partly because of this self-proclaimed 'cop'. If you think the US has this military might for any other reason than ensuring it's own political and economical wellbeing, I'd like to know what it is. It sure isn't to "keep the peace" - they're selling a bit too many weapons to questionable figures for that.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#44

Post by fakescience »

killjoywashere wrote: post #10
calibas wrote: post #3

Is my moral compass off, or does war profiteering completely violate the whole "don't be evil" thing?

[deleted]

Do you think anyone in a position of political power truly thinks of themselves as a "thug"? I imagine, in their own ways, they think they are doing a "just" and noble deed. Much like the way you characterize America's perpetual war machine, that has destabilized the world in direct ways that supposedly require us to go BACK and "steer them...in the direction our fellow citizens desire." See : Iran, ISIS, several Latin American countries, etc.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#45

Post by mtgx »

cornstalks wrote: post #28
kibwen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Google Removes 'Don't Be Evil' Clause From Its Code of Conduct": https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do... "“Don’t be evil” has been part of the company’s corporate code of conduct since 2000. When Google was reorganized under a new parent company, Alphabet, in 2015, Alphabet assumed a slightly adjusted version of the motto, “do the right thing.” However, Google retained its original “don’t be…

That last sentence directly contradicts the title...

It doesn't. The code of conduct used to start and center around the Don't be evil mantra. Now it seems to be in there just one last time before they completely eliminate, and mentioned in passing at the very end of a 3-page document:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180421105327/https://abc.xyz/i...

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#46

Post by sqdbps »

The irony of this particular piece is that they are publishing emails expressing concern about how the media might frame and distort such an item and doing just that.

The email discussion is mainly about potential revenue if they were to win the JEDI contract it's not about maven or 'expecting the drone ai work to grow'.

Also worth noting that Google isn't the only contractor for maven yet they are made as such in most articles.

As for the issue at large: Microsoft and Amazon have recently surpassed Google in market value and that is largely due to cloud, they also manage to not have their employees leak internal material to the press and protest publicly, and I think Google should look into achieving that.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#47

Post by galvarez800 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #10
calibas wrote: post #3

Is my moral compass off, or does war profiteering completely violate the whole "don't be evil" thing?

[deleted]

I disagree that the world has been made safer by the US playing world police for the past 70 years. I could list examples from Central and South America, the Middle East, Africa, southeast Asia, etc. but you probably understand where I'm going.

The US should not be out droning people in other countries except in explicit self defense ("they might have been going to attack us" doesn't count). That is my opinion, you are free to disagree with it. If "the goal is to kill fewer people," the best way to do that is to... not kill people.

Also, the fact that representatives I voted for voted in favor of extrajudicial killings of people in other countries is not something I'm happy about. I wish every day that the US could abolish its first past the post election system so that I could vote for candidates I actually agree with rather than being forced to vote for someone I sort of agree with.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#48

Post by aunty_helen »

aetherson wrote: post #23

I think that the leaked emails show that one or two execs within Google expressed the optimistic case for the eventual revenue leading from the project. That's how projects happen in companies. Some employee gets excited about the potential of the project and writes emails talking about all the huge numbers that project will post. Most of those emails are wrong. Maven may be wrong at any price or size. But Google's c…

If it was only meant to be a $9 millon project, why take the risk? Google aren't that badly cash strapped.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#49

Post by mturmon »

This is actually very interesting, being the first detailed info on this work that I have seen. First, the scale (dollars/FTEs) of the work (and proposed work) seems larger than in some earlier reporting. Bizdev people will have incentive to boost projections, but even the current numbers seem higher.

Second, the little fact that “...On October 27, 2017, a team from Google Cloud visited Beale Air Force Base...”. This indicates they were not just doing basic research, but they were trying to (eventually) field something operationally — not just develop basic technology and hand it off elsewhere for maturation. Also, the reciprocal visit of the uniformed general [2]. The presence of a general and entourage, probably also in uniform, makes a strong impression on civilian computer technologists.

In the DoD world, there is a big difference between basic research (TRL 1-3, say [1]) versus TRL 4-5 (component demos) versus TRL 6-8 (operational tests). Basic research might be funded by DARPA and is pretty abstract, typically publishable in the open literature.

As you work up toward operations, you start to deal directly with uniformed “warfighters” and realistic test environments. It’s a very different set of expectations. I think I understand better the reactions of many Googlers to the work described.

(Note: not passing personal judgement - clearly I’ve spent some time in this milieu — just observing that this work and its trappings is not what many Googlers I have known would go for.)

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_readiness_level

[2] http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/10883...

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