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Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

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Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#61

Can anyone point to an historical case study where protective tariffs resulted in a better economic or social outcome? I can’t help but recall the saying: “When goods don’t cross borders, soldiers soon will.” Not that I think the United States is going to war with Canada, but the (German-dominated) EU and China are less certain.

Protective tariffs are a good idea for protecting nascent industries from essentially foreign competition. Many countries in Asia essentially locked foreign goods from certain industries during the later half of the 20th century to help build their own industries post WW 2. They ended up opening their economy once their domestic players hit a critical stage where they could compete with international players. For example, India closed off their soda, car, and other markets to spark a homegrown industry. In the 1990s they liberalized the economy and opened it to the international megacorps, but many of the domestic companies still remain in some form and there are large manufacturing plants still from that era. So it is entirely possible that protective tariffs can help for long term growth when done strategically.

However, I highly doubt any of Trump's tariff's are strategically smart.

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to "negotiate" with the Trump administration involves contributing to the Trump businesses.

Is this true? Do you have an example?

It's hard for me to believe this is being asked in good faith

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#63
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it also keeps Can/Mex standard of living lower in many ways. I'm curious what ways you would argue Canada has a significantly lower standard of living.

"I'm curious what ways you would argue Canada has a significantly lower standard of living." I'm Canadian. Our GDP/cap is usually lower. I work in tech, my salary is less than 1/2 what it would be in the US (not just Silicon Valley). Most goods are more expensive here. We do have Universal Health care, and generally good schools and Unis, it's generally safer, cops are more low key etc. etc. It's hard to compare soci…

Canadians are on average happier and live longer. I really don't see how you can argue there's a lower standard of living.

Also, isn't the median household income higher in Canada than the US?

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US when it was industrializing? China now? Protectionism can be good for large nations/markets catching up to other nations/markets.

US was industrializing throughout the 1800's, there are empty/converted factories all up and down the East Coast from these. In New England, it was a lot of textiles, metalworking, shoes, parts, etc. What tariffs protected that growth? To me it seems to be a rising production due to rising demand for those products, as factories/mass production wasn't common prior to 1800.

The US had protective tariffs and regulations (along with a lack of free trade agreements) which definitely protected foreign goods and companies from entering the country. Protective tariffs literally started with George Washington with the goal of "the encouragement and protection of manufactures".

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#65
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it also keeps Can/Mex standard of living lower in many ways. I'm curious what ways you would argue Canada has a significantly lower standard of living.

"I'm curious what ways you would argue Canada has a significantly lower standard of living." I'm Canadian. Our GDP/cap is usually lower. I work in tech, my salary is less than 1/2 what it would be in the US (not just Silicon Valley). Most goods are more expensive here. We do have Universal Health care, and generally good schools and Unis, it's generally safer, cops are more low key etc. etc. It's hard to compare soci…

> I work in tech, my salary is less than 1/2 what it would be in the US (not just Silicon Valley).

Yes, but I'd argue that SV income might look higher, but after you try living there you'd gladly go back to Canadian expenses if the compromise was that you also had to take your Canadian income once again. Also, income inequality in Canada isn't as bad as the US (yet...)

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#66
Another option is not play tit-for-tat and instead appeal to the American people by refusing to impose tariffs in return.

Make it about Trump, not America.

There's a chance Trump will lose all his power within a few months anyway if the republicans do very badly in the midterm elections.

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#67

Another option is not play tit-for-tat and instead appeal to the American people by refusing to impose tariffs in return. Make it about Trump, not America. There's a chance Trump will lose all his power within a few months anyway if the republicans do very badly in the midterm elections.

That would sort of prove Trump's point though. "See, they knew their trade practices were unfair - they're not even fighting back".

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#70

Can anyone point to an historical case study where protective tariffs resulted in a better economic or social outcome? I can’t help but recall the saying: “When goods don’t cross borders, soldiers soon will.” Not that I think the United States is going to war with Canada, but the (German-dominated) EU and China are less certain.

Tariffs can be good for big companies and other special interests in a country, but never for the country as a whole. So when you ask if they result in "better economic or social outcome", you have to be careful to think about "for who?".

That's definitely not true. Tariffs have allowed China to bootstrap a local tech industry. It's been extremely beneficial for them.
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