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The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

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Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#21

Post by matte_black »

There is a theory that the root cause of these problems is the continued dismantling of traditional gender roles.

If women had not entered the workforce in massive numbers things could have continued based on old trajectories. The male breadwinner/housewife lifestyle was a formula that made it ideal for raising children cheaply, even if it didn’t seem like the most equitable.

If I had a good job and settled with a wife straight out of college I’m sure I’d be a father to two children by now. My income could easily support a non-working spouse and some kids.

But many of the women around me were not the type to settle so early, so I chased the money and ever more ambitious women. And with no family to support, I had dangerous amounts of money to spend on ever increasing prices and property.

And if I should marry a woman with equal earning power as me, we will be able to spend even more on whatever inflated prices are set before us. If you’ve ever been in a gay household with two men earning typical male salaries and no children, one thing you notice is that they always have tons of purchasing power. What do you think that does to the economy when it scales out?

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#22

Post by AIX2ESXI »

throw_this_one wrote: post #16
AIX2ESXI wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Think it through though. It's easy to follow the bandwagon of guys that purport that life to be the solution (I read all this stuff too), and I thought it was too at some point. I think you should go taste that lifestyle, but I think you'd find it to be only a short term fix and the same sort of "trap" awaiting you at the end. The solution to just simply arm yourself with all the knowledge you can, and then embark on…

Much appreciated man. Yeah, I have been doing the digital nomad lifestyle and lived abroad for a few weeks at a time for the past five years. I do see the trap that befalls most expats and am aware of risks. The months that I spend abroad are the happiest time of my life, when I come back to the states and can't get a date, am told I am toxic and a potential rapist and have to live in a city where homelessness is spiraling out of control and cost of living constantly rising beyond wage inflation, then I start to question everything that society tells me.

I appreciate the advice for self actualization. That is what constantly working on. In my free time, I am finishing my B.S. in Comp Sci/EE, travel internationally, work on certs, hang with my bros, hone my craft, enjoy new hobbies, write creatively, and try to stay sane and physically fit. The problems is that the more I walk down this path, the less tolerance I have for those who deter me from achieving these goals and those who don't impact my life in any positive way. As a 5'll light skinned multi-racial young man, when I try to date online or approach the opposite sex for any sort of intimacy or potential relationship, I get rejected and told I am too short, ethnic looking and am not rich enough by women who earn less than me and made bad life choices. Sigh, I suppose that makes me the asshole for not wanting to deal with this, trying to understand these trends and looking for a way out.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#23

Post by Jedd »

AIX2ESXI wrote: post #17
soontobemd55 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel this too. Most of my cis male friends won't date people that will make less money than them. I know I won't.

Yup. Most men will actually marry down economically, but women generally marry up economically. Perhaps when this is finally noticed, men will only marry their equals. With women graduating college at higher rates, perhaps this changes? https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/marrying-down-why-men-are-the...

> Most men will actually marry down economically, but women generally marry up economically.

If the first phrase is true, then the second must also be.

Of course we're conflating income with wealth (or 'economical value'), which may be fraught.

> Perhaps when this is finally noticed, men will only marry their equals.

I think asking all men to think the way you think is going to be disappointing.

I also think that proposing the evaluation of people based on income and/or economic potential is breathtakingly depressing.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#24

Post by dominotw »

kasey_junk wrote: post #12
soontobemd55 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel this too. Most of my cis male friends won't date people that will make less money than them. I know I won't.

Is your intention to have a partner that walks in lockstep through career paths over the course of a long career? How do you intend to deal with illness, career changes & family raising?

I think lower earning person can make up by doing extra chores and house work. That's what I do now. Not sure how fair that is but I think it's fair.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#25

Post by jessaustin »

ryanx435 wrote: post #19

It's not economic. People have been poor for hundreds and thousands and millions of years, and yet they still had children.

It's not just economic; it's a combination of great expectations and poor results. Millennials have been lied to, nonstop, for their entire lives. They are a resource to be mined, not citizens to be valued as they were always told. Maybe some of them have realized it, but many seem to be just locking up. It's similar to what I saw in people my own age in Japan around 1999-2000. Sure they might be materially more wealthy than e.g. a subsistence farmer, but no one ever told the subsistence farmer that student loans were a sure path to a great career.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#26

Post by Jedd »

AIX2ESXI wrote: post #9
devereaux wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I avoid Vox articles due to the unsubtle feminist ideologies > (...) recent cringe Vox interview with Jordan Peterson that kept trying put words in his mouth > (...) I see no future for myself outside of being someone's mortgage hound or alimony sugar daddy. That escalated quickly!

It is on the mind of every young person. It is becoming more common to do everything on your own. You cannot rely on a good partner to share and build a life together with. The traditional routes and social contract are broken. That is why many young people are listening to lectures on youtube and voted for nationalism. But hey, downvote me into oblivion and ridicule me, I could care less. Just sharing my insights an…

I notice that a lot of your comments are declared as absolute truths, often applying to large demographics, without much to back those claims up.

It feels like you've got strong opinions (that's perfectly okay!) and think your view of the world is shared by many / most other people (this, not so much).

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#27

Post by MLR »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #20

I'm not sure I completely agree with the economic argument, particularly because birth rates and wealthiness tend to move in opposite directions and because a comparative analysis doesn't show that strong welfare states which protect a person's income, income stability and alleviate all the costs of being a parent, don't show strong birth rates either. It feels like getting children is still very much a choice, but t…

In regards to your conclusion, I'm not sure this is really entirely true.

While Japan is a disaster right now, their situation (by my understanding) was made massively worse through bad economic choices when their economy first started slowing down.

Germany and South Korea are two examples of extremely robust economies that have had terrifically low birth rates for a long time now, Germany has had fairly high levels of immigration, but South Korea certainly hasn't.

There's also the fact that countries like the US and the UK don't have particularly bad population pyramids but are still strangling the youth to some extent, it's more a political problem than a fundamental outcome of low birthrates and welfare states.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#29

Post by alf-pogz »

8bitsrule wrote: post #6

Isn't just economic, methinks: Millennials also tend to be more perceptive about the costs of overpopulation and the approach of global warming. The wisdom of Small Is Beautiful is not so lost on them.

Speak for yourself. I'm petrified by the prospect of lack of growth. It is what our economy is built on, and a larger population could result in better science. There is plenty of land in the United States. Even our cities in the rust belt are underpopulated.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#30

Post by almostdeadguy »

AIX2ESXI wrote: post #9
devereaux wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I avoid Vox articles due to the unsubtle feminist ideologies > (...) recent cringe Vox interview with Jordan Peterson that kept trying put words in his mouth > (...) I see no future for myself outside of being someone's mortgage hound or alimony sugar daddy. That escalated quickly!

It is on the mind of every young person. It is becoming more common to do everything on your own. You cannot rely on a good partner to share and build a life together with. The traditional routes and social contract are broken. That is why many young people are listening to lectures on youtube and voted for nationalism. But hey, downvote me into oblivion and ridicule me, I could care less. Just sharing my insights an…

lol the awesome thing about incels is they make it immediately obvious to everyone as to why they've been unsuccessful at finding a partner because of their revolting personalities
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