Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says • Hacker News Board

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#51

Post by ironjunkie » Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:37 PM UTC

deft wrote: post #12

rootusrootus wrote: post #6

If true, then people are losing focus on what's important. Half of my family is extremely conservative. Half is very liberal. We get along great at family gatherings, because we just agreed that discussing politics is less important than family relationships. Maybe that will play out over the next couple years, now that the latest political developments seem to have really stretched the boundaries. Perhaps we will co…

Except politics dominate every faucet of your life and if you "get along" with your family members, your just lucky you aren't the target of their derision. This isn't even a liberal vs conservative thing. If someone's beliefs denigrate you, how can you tolerate being around them even if they try to keep that stuff quiet?

You suppose that some beliefs are denigrating others. I will guess you are a liberal that sees the world as 'Oppressors vs Oppressed' ?

I believe on the contrary that you can have political beliefs that are philosophical and ethical and way above some group-politics that sees some groups oppressing others.

what I'm saying is that if you believe in universal Healthcare or into the free market, it shouldn't change relationships.

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#52

Post by mintplant » Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

GhostVII wrote: post #38

deft wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except politics dominate every faucet of your life and if you "get along" with your family members, your just lucky you aren't the target of their derision. This isn't even a liberal vs conservative thing. If someone's beliefs denigrate you, how can you tolerate being around them even if they try to keep that stuff quiet?

How do politics dominate every faucet of your life? My life is not affected at all when the government changes, except I pay slightly different taxes, and the news is different.

This is a privilege that not all get to enjoy.

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#53

Post by brlewis » Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #42

GhostVII wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism isn't a political issue, it's accepted that it is a bad thing.

I disagree. Lots of people think it's perfectly acceptable to say terrible things about (people they think are) Mexican. You can readily predict the political alignment of the people who do think such things are acceptable. I would not be surprised if their behavior extended to other groups, such as Muslims. Additionally, a subset of these people also believe that it should be socially acceptable to say disparaging t…

An individual's drug addiction is not a political issue, even though it predicts their political leanings around drug legalization. An individual's racism or xenophobia is not a political issue, even though it predicts their political leanings around immigration.

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#54

Post by losteric » Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:56 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #6

If true, then people are losing focus on what's important. Half of my family is extremely conservative. Half is very liberal. We get along great at family gatherings, because we just agreed that discussing politics is less important than family relationships. Maybe that will play out over the next couple years, now that the latest political developments seem to have really stretched the boundaries. Perhaps we will co…

My family is similarly divided, except we do talk about politics. If anything, our last Thanksgiving was longer than usual...

Politics is not "squabbling". America is a democracy - decentralized discussion of ideas is how democracy works. Social cohesion through silence is what creates hyperpartisan cultures like our own.

The problem is most Americans use mass media as their role model for communication... and modern media thrives on angry controversy.

Don't evangelize or try to convince, just deeply understand the other person. What values does a person hold (their "axioms"), and how are those prioritized? What opinions make up their practical world view, how do they resolve conflicts... unwrap the onion one layer at a time. And let them do the same to you.

The act of explaining often tunes people in to inconsistencies in their belief, and erodes the emotional foundation. From there, techniques like the Socratic method are useful for debate

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#55

Post by Andre_Wanglin » Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:57 PM UTC

Larrikin wrote: post #45

Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideas are expressed by people. Does every person deserve serious consideration?

Racists do not

What is a racist? Is this a fixed idea or does it change year to year and depend on the context? Shouldn't we be careful about writing off people based on fluctuating social mores? What about fascists, Marxists, communists, and anarchists? And, say, Trump supporters? Do they deserve basic human respect? Is there any reason not to dehumanize these groups too? Or others who fail our moral tests?

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#56

Post by ryandrake » Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:00 PM UTC

deft wrote: post #12

rootusrootus wrote: post #6

If true, then people are losing focus on what's important. Half of my family is extremely conservative. Half is very liberal. We get along great at family gatherings, because we just agreed that discussing politics is less important than family relationships. Maybe that will play out over the next couple years, now that the latest political developments seem to have really stretched the boundaries. Perhaps we will co…

Except politics dominate every faucet of your life and if you "get along" with your family members, your just lucky you aren't the target of their derision. This isn't even a liberal vs conservative thing. If someone's beliefs denigrate you, how can you tolerate being around them even if they try to keep that stuff quiet?

Honestly, I don’t really have any political faucets in my life. Just the regular ones: Two in each bathroom and one over the kitchen sink. Haven’t given too much thought about whether they were liberal or conservative—they just dispense water.

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#57

Post by moosey » Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:06 PM UTC

ironjunkie wrote: post #51

deft wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except politics dominate every faucet of your life and if you "get along" with your family members, your just lucky you aren't the target of their derision. This isn't even a liberal vs conservative thing. If someone's beliefs denigrate you, how can you tolerate being around them even if they try to keep that stuff quiet?

You suppose that some beliefs are denigrating others. I will guess you are a liberal that sees the world as 'Oppressors vs Oppressed' ? I believe on the contrary that you can have political beliefs that are philosophical and ethical and way above some group-politics that sees some groups oppressing others. what I'm saying is that if you believe in universal Healthcare or into the free market, it shouldn't change rela…

I would agree, if those were the things that were dividing the average voter. However, having two daughters, friends who are LGBT, and being a man with more melanin in my skin than the average European, I find contemporary 'Social Conservatism' to be completely unacceptable. It doesn't help that social issues, along with the fact that studies are regularly finding that racial resentment and sexism, are very strong predictors for conservative voters.

I wish it was Universal Healthcare vs. Free Market, that way we could have rational discussions on most issues.

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#58

Post by btilly » Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

Larrikin wrote: post #45

Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideas are expressed by people. Does every person deserve serious consideration?

Racists do not

That is your opinion, and you are free to it.

However at this point "racists" organized and wound up controlling Congress, the Senate, the Presidency and the Supreme Court. The people that you'd like to ignore are currently running the place. Ignoring them might not be the best idea...

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#59

Post by Frondo » Thu, May 31, 2018, 11:13 PM UTC

ironjunkie wrote: post #51

deft wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except politics dominate every faucet of your life and if you "get along" with your family members, your just lucky you aren't the target of their derision. This isn't even a liberal vs conservative thing. If someone's beliefs denigrate you, how can you tolerate being around them even if they try to keep that stuff quiet?

You suppose that some beliefs are denigrating others. I will guess you are a liberal that sees the world as 'Oppressors vs Oppressed' ? I believe on the contrary that you can have political beliefs that are philosophical and ethical and way above some group-politics that sees some groups oppressing others. what I'm saying is that if you believe in universal Healthcare or into the free market, it shouldn't change rela…

I dunno, I'm trying to square "political beliefs that are [...] above some group-politics that sees some groups oppressing others" with, well, okay, I have two close friends who are trans, and one of them lives in one of those states that's been doing the trans bathroom laws.

How am I supposed to square this ideal that politics doesn't need to involve oppressing people, when I see this one friend who's basically being told she can't legally use the bathroom that's right for her?

Like, how is that not oppressing?

Re: Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says

#60

Post by emodendroket » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 12:39 AM UTC

Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #35

emodendroket wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every idea deserves serious consideration.

Ideas are expressed by people. Does every person deserve serious consideration?

To take an obvious example, I'm sure his friends thought he was a swell guy, but I don't think we need to revisit Hitler's ideas about the Jews. I don't think we need to give much serious thought to theories about moon landing hoaxes or theories about how the Earth is flat either, no matter how nice the people promulgating them may be. We are only given so much time on this Earth; I can think of better ways to spend it than seriously engaging with obvious claptrap.