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Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
61–70 of 254 posts
Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
So this is Telegram saying "oh we forgot to update for GDPR because err ... umm ... err ... Russia!"? I mean we presumably do have Russian court Records from April, records that the Roskomnadzor went to court for encryption keys, and that there have been "shutting down entire segments of the Russian internet. Many small organizations, including language schools and museums, have been blocked as collateral damage." An…
There is certainly evidence that Russia has a problem with Telegram. There is also evidence that Russia is trying to get Telegram removed from the app store. What we don't have any evidence for is that these are in any way related to Telegram's inability to get updates approved by Apple. This is speculation based on the above claims which do have evidence.
Fair enough - this is essentially my own question above - what pressure can be applied by Russia to Apple
to prevent App Store UK getting updates? If you have a legal dispute in country A does the
prevent all counties getting updates?
Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is certainly evidence that Russia has a problem with Telegram. There is also evidence that Russia is trying to get Telegram removed from the app store. What we don't have any evidence for is that these are in any way related to Telegram's inability to get updates approved by Apple. This is speculation based on the above claims which do have evidence.
Fair enough - this is essentially my own question above - what pressure can be applied by Russia to Apple to prevent App Store UK getting updates? If you have a legal dispute in country A does the prevent all counties getting updates?
Maybe they found an excuse to disable updates, but they don't want to be seen helping Russia. This only works if updates are disabled for the app entirely.
Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
All this points to me is the risks of owning a phone whose only way to add apps is to go through one company's own discretion. Unlike in Android where you can easily install apps from other app stores or just download the file.
Installing apps outside an app store also introduces other risks, it's not exactly one better than the other. Personally I'd love to sideload apps, but seeing how big of a mess that was on desktops leads me to believe most users are better served by a gatekeeper.
> how big of a mess that was on desktops
Wait, what? The desktop experience is wonderful in this regard - choose any number of app stores if you want, or don't, if you don't want.
I've never, ever thought of this as a problem.
Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
#65I'd given this challenge some thought in the recent past, specifically the challenge that the big app store owners are each generally susceptible to coercion by large nation-state actors in spite of being multinationally distributed. There was a project I was involved in rather heavily (cyph // resulted in a pair of neat conference talks) where we'd accounted for the risks of apps being banned by making the entire ap…
Skywire to the rescue. Can't wait dor it to go live.
Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Installing apps outside an app store also introduces other risks, it's not exactly one better than the other. Personally I'd love to sideload apps, but seeing how big of a mess that was on desktops leads me to believe most users are better served by a gatekeeper.
> how big of a mess that was on desktops Wait, what? The desktop experience is wonderful in this regard - choose any number of app stores if you want, or don't, if you don't want. I've never, ever thought of this as a problem.
The millions of desktops riddled with adware and viruses running to this day is pretty good evidence that most people cannot effectively manage software on a desktop OS.
Remember when you'd find four different toolbars on IE that your friend/family/neighbor had no idea how they got?
If you're on this site you are not most people. But, if it wasn't for the rules of Apple and Google what kind of things do you think Candy Crush would install on your elderly relative's phone?
Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
#67What else do people expect from a closed ecosystem? Vendor bowing down to disreputable nation-states' requests. Check. Out of date apps with vulnerabilities. Check. Impossible to verify security of said system or apps. Check. Complete opaqueness from the vendor. Check. And this is from a vendor that supposedly values both security and privacy ... not that any others are any better.
Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess my brain is too small to grok this all in one go but are you saying that Russia is applying pressure to Apple (what pressure?) that prevents Apple App Stores in all countries from accepting a new update of Telegram I don't get this - why is Telegram not releasing updates in a UK or Japanese region? What pressure (besides the local russian court system) is being applied here --- In general yes I expect that ap…
anytime someone says "only nation player threat model" I say in my mind "and also internal threats" . I believe this gives a more complete picture of the actual risk.
Usually true, but not consistently. There are applications which by design have accounted for internal threats but not state actors strictly because of the motivations of the threat actors themselves.
To drastically simplify it:
- Internal threats are usually motivated by finance/challenge/spite.
- State actors are usually motivated to counter perceived national security threats regardless of whether they're short-term or long-term. The result is a preparedness to spend resources orthogonally as compared to the potential impact of the threat to anyone other than the state but which may be directly correlated to the perceived risk to the state itself.
In simpler terms: risks exploitable by internal threats versus state actors do not assuredly overlap, and a lot of it is because risks exploitable by possessing knowledge might not be the same as risks exploitable with gobs of money.
Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> how big of a mess that was on desktops Wait, what? The desktop experience is wonderful in this regard - choose any number of app stores if you want, or don't, if you don't want. I've never, ever thought of this as a problem.
The millions of desktops riddled with adware and viruses running to this day is pretty good evidence that most people cannot effectively manage software on a desktop OS. Remember when you'd find four different toolbars on IE that your friend/family/neighbor had no idea how they got? If you're on this site you are not most people. But, if it wasn't for the rules of Apple and Google what kind of things do you think Can…
> The millions of desktops riddled with adware and viruses running to this day is pretty good evidence that most people cannot effectively manage software on a desktop OS.
That seems like victim blaming to me. I think this is more like pretty good evidence that Microsoft has done a disservice to its users vis a vis their security.
> Remember when you'd find four different toolbars on IE that your friend/family/neighbor had no idea how they got?
Yeah. I fixed that problem by introducing them to Ubuntu and Firefox, not by cordoning off their ability to install applications of their choosing.
> If you're on this site you are not most people. But, if it wasn't for the rules of Apple and Google what kind of things do you think Candy Crush would install on your elderly relative's phone?
I dunno man, this seems like a very dangerous argument to me. It's like you're saying that there's a huge silent majority that is not qualified to be the sovereign over the machines in their life, and that's not my world view.
I acknowledge that malware is a huge issue, but I think it's reasonably clear that the best ways of mitigating it do not include disempowering people or cutting their free speech at the knees.
Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess my brain is too small to grok this all in one go but are you saying that Russia is applying pressure to Apple (what pressure?) that prevents Apple App Stores in all countries from accepting a new update of Telegram I don't get this - why is Telegram not releasing updates in a UK or Japanese region? What pressure (besides the local russian court system) is being applied here --- In general yes I expect that ap…
Russia is even making public threats to block Apple services for everyone in Russia because of Telegram. Do you not consider this a form of pressure? I presume earlier Apple just gave in a bit to the pressure and stopped updates to help them censor the app.
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