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If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

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Re: If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

#31

Post by reificator »

rcatcher wrote: post #30
reificator wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're joking right? A quick googling shows the median price of a home in Detroit as $35k. I don't care how bad you are at budgeting, with $91k/y in Detroit you could buy two homes. I don't have to google San Francisco to tell you that you'd be lucky to afford to rent with three roommates on $55k in San Francisco. I get where you're coming from in terms of crime and such, but cost of living is a major part of choosin…

You probably wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood where a house costs $35k. I used to live in Philadelphia, the median house price was around $100k, but it was skewed by neighborhoods with high crime rates.

I've lived in much worse growing up, I assure you.

The point is that the bay area housing market is on one extreme and Detroit's is on the other.

Re: If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

#32

Post by orand »

The HN title and first sentence in the article are potentially misleading. It's not just about maximizing salary, it's also about cost of living and "opportunity", as described later in the article.

Perhaps the HN title should be updated to the title of the original article: "What's the Best City for Software Engineers?"

Re: If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

#33

Post by rb808 »

reificator wrote: post #13
Areading314 wrote: post #4

I think many people would still rather make $55k in SF than $91k in detroit, even if these numbers weren't completely bogus

You're joking right? A quick googling shows the median price of a home in Detroit as $35k. I don't care how bad you are at budgeting, with $91k/y in Detroit you could buy two homes. I don't have to google San Francisco to tell you that you'd be lucky to afford to rent with three roommates on $55k in San Francisco. I get where you're coming from in terms of crime and such, but cost of living is a major part of choosin…

Well these are real (adjusted) salaries, and most tech people do choose SF over Detroit so I think you're wrong.

Re: If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

#34

Post by jowiar »

rcatcher wrote: post #30
reificator wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're joking right? A quick googling shows the median price of a home in Detroit as $35k. I don't care how bad you are at budgeting, with $91k/y in Detroit you could buy two homes. I don't have to google San Francisco to tell you that you'd be lucky to afford to rent with three roommates on $55k in San Francisco. I get where you're coming from in terms of crime and such, but cost of living is a major part of choosin…

You probably wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood where a house costs $35k. I used to live in Philadelphia, the median house price was around $100k, but it was skewed by neighborhoods with high crime rates.

8 years ago a friend of mine bought a perfectly serviceable house in a nice, safe, convenient neighborhood in Pittsburgh for about 90k.

Generally, here’s what I’ve seen gets you equivalent size/convenience/safety:

1m in NY

500k in DC

300k in Philly

150k in Pittsburgh.

I would absolutely believe you could find something nice for 5 figures in Detroit.

Re: If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

#35

Post by chomp »

tptacek wrote: post #12

This is bad. If your metric for best city for software engineers excludes from its top 10 not only SFBA but Seattle, New York, Austin, and Atlanta, your whole piece better be a prolonged and detailed explanation of how you concluded that metric was valid. I love Chicago and think we benefit in a lot of ways from running a tech company (mostly) from here, but there is no way Chicago is a better place to be a software…

I mean, "Best City" as described by the article is a really loaded term because it means a bunch of different things to different people. Some people like to optimize for net income. Others might want to optimize for like-minded folks, support networks, and peer collaboration. Still others might want more health oriented amenities and pleasant weather. I think you're right though; by excluding these software engineer-dense cities, I think the article is missing the point of what might be the "best city" for a software engineer. After all, if they aren't even in the top 10, why are people even there? :)

Anecdote: at my current job in Houston, I know I earn a significant amount more than my counterpart in Austin, and I get a way less cost of living also. I also know that Austin has way more opportunities than Houston does, so I'm screwed if I ever want to leave this job. My personal situation matches the chart in the article.

Re: If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

#36

Post by reificator »

rb808 wrote: post #33
reificator wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're joking right? A quick googling shows the median price of a home in Detroit as $35k. I don't care how bad you are at budgeting, with $91k/y in Detroit you could buy two homes. I don't have to google San Francisco to tell you that you'd be lucky to afford to rent with three roommates on $55k in San Francisco. I get where you're coming from in terms of crime and such, but cost of living is a major part of choosin…

Well these are real (adjusted) salaries, and most tech people do choose SF over Detroit so I think you're wrong.

I was responding to the post as written, which did not mention adjustments.

Most tech people do not choose SF at $55k. That's all I'm saying.

Re: If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

#37

Post by thereare5lights »

reificator wrote: post #31
rcatcher wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood where a house costs $35k. I used to live in Philadelphia, the median house price was around $100k, but it was skewed by neighborhoods with high crime rates.

I've lived in much worse growing up, I assure you. The point is that the bay area housing market is on one extreme and Detroit's is on the other.

Would you raise kids in that same environment if given the option?

Re: If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

#38

Post by tptacek »

chomp wrote: post #35
tptacek wrote: post #12

This is bad. If your metric for best city for software engineers excludes from its top 10 not only SFBA but Seattle, New York, Austin, and Atlanta, your whole piece better be a prolonged and detailed explanation of how you concluded that metric was valid. I love Chicago and think we benefit in a lot of ways from running a tech company (mostly) from here, but there is no way Chicago is a better place to be a software…

I mean, "Best City" as described by the article is a really loaded term because it means a bunch of different things to different people. Some people like to optimize for net income. Others might want to optimize for like-minded folks, support networks, and peer collaboration. Still others might want more health oriented amenities and pleasant weather. I think you're right though; by excluding these software engineer…

I think this list would look a lot different if the jobs it considered were scoped down to software companies, and excluded the line-of-business development jobs that characterize most of the openings on cities outside the big tech centers.

Re: If you’re a software engineer, where should you live to maximize your income?

#39

Post by asdsa5325 »

orand wrote: post #32

The HN title and first sentence in the article are potentially misleading. It's not just about maximizing salary, it's also about cost of living and "opportunity", as described later in the article. Perhaps the HN title should be updated to the title of the original article: "What's the Best City for Software Engineers?"

I originally had the title as:

"What's the Best City for Software Engineers?" (Adjusted Salary & Opportunity)

But it was changed by a moderator for some reason...

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