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Leaving .net

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Re: Leaving .net

#21

Post by MikeMacMan »

My buddy and I are starting a web project (a Q&A site for translations) and have chosen ASP.NET MVC. It doesn't abstract away the innards of the web like WebForms did. It has no more magic than RoR.

Why are we using .NET instead of something like RoR or (my framework of choice) Grails? Because my buddy knows it inside and out, the tools are great, and we'd like to minimize the number of unknowns in our project. We're pragmatic.

There's plenty of .NET open-source projects out there for things like dependency injection and ORM.

Re: Leaving .net

#22

Post by konad »

mahmud wrote: post #15
shin_lao wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why making money with programming makes you feel dirty?

It was Microsoft's answer to Java, with hindsight 20/20. I wanted to see their take on portable bytecode, JIT techniques, security, distributed computing, performance, etc. Nearly everybody there was burned by MS's short attention span when it comes to system libraries (OLE, COM, DCOM, DCOM+ for one, and the mess that is data-access libraries, OLE-DB,MDAC, ODBC, ADO, Jet, etc.) We wanted closure, at least I knew I di…

Yep. That's why I bailed back in '99. You needed an MSDN subscription just so your apps could tread water.

Phone rings "Hi, we upgraded our NT server and now your software is broken".

Many hours later "Oh MS changed the DB connection pooling to OFF"

Me: Hmm, this Personal Home Page things looks ok, I'll give that a try.

And as horrible as PHP is, it behaves itself.

Re: Leaving .net

#23

Post by chunkbot »

mahmud wrote: post #15
shin_lao wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why making money with programming makes you feel dirty?

It was Microsoft's answer to Java, with hindsight 20/20. I wanted to see their take on portable bytecode, JIT techniques, security, distributed computing, performance, etc. Nearly everybody there was burned by MS's short attention span when it comes to system libraries (OLE, COM, DCOM, DCOM+ for one, and the mess that is data-access libraries, OLE-DB,MDAC, ODBC, ADO, Jet, etc.) We wanted closure, at least I knew I di…

"We wanted closure"; left the mess for Lisp. Indeed, the explicit use of closures is closely associated with Lisp.

Re: Leaving .net

#24

Post by bruceboughton »

sp332 wrote: post #13
shin_lao wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why making money with programming makes you feel dirty?

If I already have a full-time job, and I just want to hack around as a hobby in my spare time, I don't want the language features and runtime to be tied up in the same (probably more) red tape and politicking I have to deal with at my day job. I just want to relax and hack, and if there's money involved, that's a lot less likely to be enjoyable.

The reality is that any reasonably complex endeavour will suffer from this, OSS languages included.

Re: Leaving .net

#25

Post by chrisbaglieri »

Personally, it's less the lack of community and more the lack of OSS adoption as a result of the lack of community that's a hindrance. .NET developers need to stop drinking Microsoft's Kool-Aid and explore what's out there. If nothing else, they ought to explore the major ports from the Java world (e.g. NHibernate, Spring.NET, etc.). .NET developers are effectively slaves to their tools; don't get me wrong, Visual Studio is an impressive IDE and development environment but it over-shields. It's shocking how out of their comfort zone most are with anything that does not start with the letter 'n' or end with the word 'dotnet'.

I agree with the points made about economics and marketability, but, at least for me, if you want to stand out from the .NET crowd (in turn making yourself more marketable), learn something, anything, as long as it's not a first class citizen on Microsoft's stack. Become familiar with a language other than C# or (gasp!) VB.NET. Try IronPython or F#; you're still on the CLR! Learn to appreciate and leverage patterns. The Java community embraces open source, and as a result, patterns become an integral part of their vocabulary. .NET developers need to become more proficient in this realm.

Re: Leaving .net

#26

Post by [deleted] »

liamk wrote: post #7

Out of curiosity, are people building their own for-fun-projects using .net or even Java? All I seem to hear are people using Python, Ruby and Javascript.

[deleted]

Re: Leaving .net

#27

Post by [deleted] »

arethuza wrote: post #18
mahmud wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was Microsoft's answer to Java, with hindsight 20/20. I wanted to see their take on portable bytecode, JIT techniques, security, distributed computing, performance, etc. Nearly everybody there was burned by MS's short attention span when it comes to system libraries (OLE, COM, DCOM, DCOM+ for one, and the mess that is data-access libraries, OLE-DB,MDAC, ODBC, ADO, Jet, etc.) We wanted closure, at least I knew I di…

Part of the "Microsoft Tax" is that there is always a new new thing - when it comes to Microsoft selling products their biggest competitor is installed versions of their existing products not other vendors.

[deleted]

Re: Leaving .net

#28

Post by Rickasaurus »

"Real open source isn’t submitting a patch and waiting/hoping that one day it might be accepted and merged into the main line."

So the Linux kernel isn't REAL open source then?

Re: Leaving .net

#29

Post by mahmud »

chunkbot wrote: post #23
mahmud wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was Microsoft's answer to Java, with hindsight 20/20. I wanted to see their take on portable bytecode, JIT techniques, security, distributed computing, performance, etc. Nearly everybody there was burned by MS's short attention span when it comes to system libraries (OLE, COM, DCOM, DCOM+ for one, and the mess that is data-access libraries, OLE-DB,MDAC, ODBC, ADO, Jet, etc.) We wanted closure, at least I knew I di…

"We wanted closure"; left the mess for Lisp. Indeed, the explicit use of closures is closely associated with Lisp.

I am sorry you have been downvotted, but that was indeed a deliberate word-mine, buried for your pleasure.

I do that frequently, but you're the first to point it out :-)

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