Like any and every business theory, Scrum has one or two core ideas that are awesome, but could be explained adequately in a paragraph or two. This does not sell books and consulting, so it evolved into a field of its own. The fact that there is so much B.S. in Scrum doesn't mean that it has nothing of value to offer, though. Here's what I get out of it: 1. Sprints are a better way to organize than Waterfalls. I've e…
I can probably agree that sprints are usually more realistic than old school waterfall (arguably it depends, like all things) but why do we feel the need to perpetually sprint? A simple kanban board seems to give all the same benefits without the constant pressure and weekly death march to meet the end of sprint commitments.
Scrum disempowers developers
321–330 of 382 posts
Re: Scrum disempowers developers
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm comparing Scrum to customized, situation-specific workflow practices created and adopted by the team that will use them, based on what works for that team. What about Scrum uses evidence to convince a team to believe it should deviate from that? > "No one cares whether you approve of Scrum or not." If you don't want to participate in a discussion about it, why are you? Statements like this are useless. We're talk…
You're comparing Scrum to a phantom. State which specific practices work better than Scrum in specific situations. Otherwise it's just a complaint with no useful contribution.
Sure.
- When working on a team whose primary outputs are highly specialized research, the necessity to have planning meetings, standups, retrospectives, etc., according to a single fixed schedule causes a lot of problems. A better practice is to allow the length of a sprint to be variable and to be different for different individual team members depending on what they are working on. Elminate overhead that's not helping by discontinuing a fixed-cycle planning meeting (e.g. don't do it every X weeks, rather just arrange planning meetings in an ad hoc way whenever enough items reach a state where a group planning meeting makes sense.) If your team is working on projects that need a longer time to ruminate and develop at the moment, then cancel the retrospective meeting and just do it later after some other milestone. Basically, treat these things like collegial, flexible, malleable tools whose timelines and cadence flexibly changes all the time in response to current projects.
- When working on fundamental research, notions of incremental progress are not useful. You might spend weeks on a problem and have no demonstrable new functionality. You may not even have any research or documentation to share. You might only be able to say, "I worked extremely hard on methods X, Y, and Z, and I appear no closer to know whether they could work or not. Need more time." So in this situation, estimating story points is absurd, and reporting velocity is at best a nuisance but more often harmful because you can count on upper management questioning it with inappropriate comparisons to the way velocity works for iterative software work. Later on, maybe several weeks later, you might have a breakthrough on the tough research project, and now you are at a point where you need to productionize the supporting software that wraps it, and you do get value from estimating time to completion and using iterative cycles of incremental, demonstrable units of functionality. So once again, it should be flexible. Many times, there is no use whatsoever to estimate story points, so don't do it. Don't use a concept like velocity for these case-by-case situations at all. Then later, if you find value in switching back to an estimation-and-velocity approach for productionizing it, then do so.
I could go on, but the general idea is that it should be highly flexible. No fixed set of meetings that must happen every sprint no matter the work context. No enforced policy of always estimating story points or always tracking velocity. That's no flexible, it's rigid because it says you always have to do it that one way, and leaves no room for situations when that one way is not useful, or when it adds costly and time-wasting overhead during periods of work that don't benefit from it.
These things should be left up to the team to decide, based on what type of work the team does, how it varies over time, what feels low-overhead and liberating, what facilitates productivity for that team.
> "You're comparing Scrum to a phantom."
No, I'm not. And I have not been at any point in earlier comments either. Your comments are just needlessly antagonistic while constantly deflecting without dealing with the fundamental problems of Scrum.
> "Otherwise it's just a complaint with no useful contribution."
Complaints are often useful contributions all on their own. It's foolish to claim that complaints have to always be accompanied by candidate solutions to be useful. No. Knowledge of the details of the complaint is useful all on its own. Regardless though, this is still a lazy mischaracterization of anything I have been writing.
Re: Scrum disempowers developers
#323It's hard for people to go back once they've seen it work. The people that I've worked with have said that when they do move on to other companies they didn't realize how helpful it was until it was gone. It can seem like some bullshit, I get it. It's change. It's not a perfect model. Also, when leaders or teammates behave in a command-and-control and uncollaborative way, it's a lot less fun.
Biggest personal challenges: connecting team members to real clients, integrating UX (need more people and up-leveling of team members), too-stable of teams (I like forming around new ideas and the excitement of that), being distributed, the language (Scrum Master - really?!!?), perscriptive agile peers
Re: Scrum disempowers developers
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "How about deciding what you want to say: a) scrum makes it worse or b) scrum does not help?" Both! > "Really? Before we have worked with RUP and Agile RUP. Compared to that Scrum is tiny." Nuclear submarines are tiny because aircraft carriers are large. And this means submarines are a good investment. > "The team should be cross-functional based on the product the team develops." This is ignoring reality in many c…
> Both! Strange, >Nuclear submarines are tiny because aircraft carriers are large. And this means submarines are a good investment. Not sure what this has to do with Scrum or the low complexity of Scrum, which fully can be explained in a small book or a week of training. > This is ignoring reality in many cases. A team might develop something domain-specific, like a natural language processing algorithm, but then lat…
Earlier you made a disingenuous comparison of the relative bloat of RUP and Agile RUP in comparison to Scrum. The relative overhead costs of Scrum compared to those other methods don't matter. Only the overhead of Scrum compared to low-overhead and low-formalism methods that deliver the same business outcomes.
> "Basic knowledge: a NLP developer is not a front end developer. Yes, you can add and remove people from teams during the runtime of a project."
Scrum, despite not explicitly saying it in any formal documents, facilitates managers in avoiding adding or removing of the right specialized people, by creating an expectation that every engineer ought to be trained as a full-stack engineer, and using language that makes it sound like every team ought to cover every possible domain.
> "If your management is too dumb or you are too easily fooled by management, don't blame Scrum."
How is this relevant? No one mentioned dumb management nor workers who are fooled by management. We are talking about how Scrum encourages and facilitates this kind of behavior, even among earnest management and fully-aware teams. It seems like more of the same No True Scotsman fallacy for you to presume it can only be caused by "too dumb" management or teams being "fooled". Yet again, in your description, the bad stuff cannot happen in a "real" Scrum setup, only in a "bad" one where people are either dumb or foolish. Defining away your problem.
> "True. But that has nothing to do with Scrum."
False, Scrum explicitly holds it as a principle that teams should always be cross-functional. Scrum doesn't allow the possibility that e.g. front-end work for a wide variety of products should be separated into a single front-end team, and corresponding backend work separated into different backend-specific teams. It advocates that all teams working on projects with front-end and backend needs should be both front-end and backend teams. This is very much a direct problem with Scrum itself.
> "Scrum does not impose an unilateral model for all projects."
This is one of the defining properties of Scrum. A unilateral choice for sprint length, format and frequency of planning meeting, details of required story point estimation, daily stand ups, required retrospective, etc. Scrum doesn't allow omitting these things when they are not useful. There is a tiny amount of customization allowed (e.g. t-shirt sizes instead of story points, or 3-week sprints instead of 2-week), but it's meaningless in terms of what a team actually needs to customize (which is stuff like dropping estimation all together, and e.g. only hold occasional retro meetings scheduled in an ad hoc way at the team's convenience, not enforced every X weeks as part of a sprint).
> "It's just more likely to succeed with Scrum in situations like small team (10 people), product development, changing requirements, responsive customer, etc. etc."
My experience is the opposite... that adding Scrum in exactly those situations just means we have to do extra boilerplate work to get the same end product finished on time, and that Scrum is not more likely to succeed than other methods.
Re: Scrum disempowers developers
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, if you want to do the "No True Scotsman" thing, sure. But I think it's really counterproductive to handwave away a lot of the common problems that occur.
While it was a genuine question, I don't think the "No True Scotsman" fallacy applies at all, since that refers to subjective interpretation. IIRC, one of the objective rules of Scrum is that estimation of tasks is done by those who are to do them. If that is the case, and the owner of the backlog is estimating tasks, then it would appear that Scrum is not being practiced (or only partially being practiced, which may…
Re: Scrum disempowers developers
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
So like everything in life, it all comes down to management. If management doesn't buy in, it doesn't matter how many processes you put in place, they're the ones that either hold the keys to success or failure.
Except that Scrum added time-wasting extra stuff on top of the situation. If management doesn't buy in and I can operate my own low-overhead, low-formalism workflow, then so be it. I suffer the badness of management, but I don't also pay time waster costs for a formalized process whose sole purpose of better facilitating productivity is categorically disallowed in the first place. I personally, as a matter of experie…
Re: Scrum disempowers developers
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are entirely right that the "sell books and consulting" is a major driver of what Agile became. I got involved in the Agile world circa 2000, but by 2010 or so my main feeling was increasing horror: http://agilefocus.com/2011/02/21/agiles-second-chasm-and-how... One of the especially interesting things to me was that at the beginning there were a variety of different methods. People behind them got togeth…
> "If you go by actual behavior, it turns out the highest priority at most companies is not actually to improve, to get better at making things for users. It's instead to make managers and executives feel like something is being done without disturbing the power hierarchy. Low-end Scrum fills that need adequately, letting you move marginally in the direction of agility, apply some new labels, and declare "mission acc…
Re: Scrum disempowers developers
#328Like any and every business theory, Scrum has one or two core ideas that are awesome, but could be explained adequately in a paragraph or two. This does not sell books and consulting, so it evolved into a field of its own. The fact that there is so much B.S. in Scrum doesn't mean that it has nothing of value to offer, though. Here's what I get out of it: 1. Sprints are a better way to organize than Waterfalls. I've e…
Exactly. This is why it's stupid when managers get all hyped up about and decide everything needs to be shaken up based on what they learned at a seminar or heard from some consultant/"coach".
For the most part, those 3 points seem like easily understandable ideas, and have been used in some form by other industries, such as manufacturing, for a long time before they were presented for software development. Replace "PM" or "Scrum Master" with "Foreman" and you can get the picture of what activities are involved with a worker managing other workers and the work that gets produced.
There is so much over-complication with the current system of methodologies and nebulous acronyms that accompany it[0]. There's SAFe, Agile, Scrum, Scrum of Scums (recursive scrum??), RAD, LeSS, etc. It gets confusing and messy very quickly. Instead of focusing on doing the work, it's easy for managers to get swept up in the semantics of these frameworks and end up hurting the work by over-thinking and over-applying the principles on the workers. Scrum methodologies are guidelines that can be tweaked to fit the situation, and don't have to implemented if they don't make sense. Instead of thinking "Does this make sense?", the manager/business side tends to think "Well, it worked for X, so it must work for me!". Scrum is an editable template that should help eliminate wasted effort and mindless work, and if that's not the case then it isn't being done right.
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_(software_development)
Re: Scrum disempowers developers
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are entirely right that the "sell books and consulting" is a major driver of what Agile became. I got involved in the Agile world circa 2000, but by 2010 or so my main feeling was increasing horror: http://agilefocus.com/2011/02/21/agiles-second-chasm-and-how... One of the especially interesting things to me was that at the beginning there were a variety of different methods. People behind them got togeth…
> "If you go by actual behavior, it turns out the highest priority at most companies is not actually to improve, to get better at making things for users. It's instead to make managers and executives feel like something is being done without disturbing the power hierarchy. Low-end Scrum fills that need adequately, letting you move marginally in the direction of agility, apply some new labels, and declare "mission acc…
Yes, exactly. I know some good people who are dedicated Scrum fans. In their view, the engineering practices are all implied, because if you do have a relatively autonomous team dedicated to continuous improvement, you'll get there. And it works, because they are smart and dedicated people committed to doing the right thing.
So in that sense, the idea of Scrum is a good idea. But Scrum-the-movement and Scrum-the-business have fallen very short of that ideal. So in practice about 98% of Scrum implementations I've seen make me despair for humanity.
> What I really wish Scrum or Agile had, was a more unbreakable way to let development teams say no
One interesting version of that was the Extreme Programming Bill of Rights. One version of it is here (and in XP jargon "customer" is something like "product manager":
http://www.agilenutshell.com/bill_of_rights
It's not perfect, but I think it was a good attempt to make clear that there's a useful balance of power.
Re: Scrum disempowers developers
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s funny looking back at what we used to call software development methodologies. Booch and Rumbaugh were primarily focused on modeling. Any talk of process meant a dynamic description of the program. Jacobson was a little more method focused. You can see how his introduction of use cases started the idea of talking to your customer about what they need. I remember seeing Rose and thinking this will make a huge imp…
Finally! I get share my Booch story: At OOPLSA 98, Booch convened the first society of software architects (or some such). Having read all his writing (ditto Yourdon, Brooks, Rumblaugh, etc), I was super excited. During the Q&A I finally got to ask “What is software architecture?” Booch replied “Software architecture is what software architects do.” Bubble popped. I gave up seeking the council of the priesthood and b…
Every time I see a shop with designated Software Architects who hog the architecture work, it's a fucking mess. Because then Software Architects don't get rewarded in their careers for making software. They get rewarded for writing white papers and coming up with "brilliant" architectures and impressing executives who know less than them about technology. Which is mostly inversely correlated with actually making it easier for developers to get real work done.