I still haven't seen a good explanation for how UBI on a truly universal scale isn't going to just raise housing prices to capture the surplus. I mean, if my landlord knew I (and anybody else who could theoretically live in my apartment) had a spare $2000/month, forever, I'm pretty sure he'd want it.
Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
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Re: Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wouldn't really be UBI, but still worthwhile data for programs with work requirements. I'm rather fond of the idea of work based programs. For example, for every $1 of W2 income you earn you receive $1 bonus, up to a cap of say $7,500. This boosts wages on the low end and strongly encourages employment. Funding this through income taxes and you won't have to kill off risky / low profit small business with local li…
How would you structure that bonus if you get a promotion that takes you to 7,501? You would get an impressive pay cut. If you structure it like taxes where only the first 7.5k get doubled then a bunch of people that don't need it will also get free money making the program cost more.
You're right! That would be a major concern and an incredibly serious flaw in such a program.
Maybe the description could be parsed slightly differently? Some might read parent's description to be proposing a bonus on W2 income the a limit on the bonus only of $7,500. Thus an income greater than that receives the full bonus. The structural problem you have correctly identified thus does not arise!
Re: Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
#13I still haven't seen a good explanation for how UBI on a truly universal scale isn't going to just raise housing prices to capture the surplus. I mean, if my landlord knew I (and anybody else who could theoretically live in my apartment) had a spare $2000/month, forever, I'm pretty sure he'd want it.
That's always been what I wondered as well. UBI solves everything, except for the part where an actor who knows explicitly that all of his tenants will be getting a flat amount per month, then why not raise prices to capture some of that as well? Why wouldn't everything just increase in price slightly, everyone can afford a little bit more now.
Re: Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
#14I still haven't seen a good explanation for how UBI on a truly universal scale isn't going to just raise housing prices to capture the surplus. I mean, if my landlord knew I (and anybody else who could theoretically live in my apartment) had a spare $2000/month, forever, I'm pretty sure he'd want it.
That's always been what I wondered as well. UBI solves everything, except for the part where an actor who knows explicitly that all of his tenants will be getting a flat amount per month, then why not raise prices to capture some of that as well? Why wouldn't everything just increase in price slightly, everyone can afford a little bit more now.
I'd presume defenders would say, because with the increased purchasing power at hand, there would be more incentive for developers to build. When instead the money is squandered through public housing, homeless shelters, halfway houses, and other intermediaries, the housing is slow to be built, with low accountability for either landlord or tenant to get and receive their value.
Re: Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
#15I still haven't seen a good explanation for how UBI on a truly universal scale isn't going to just raise housing prices to capture the surplus. I mean, if my landlord knew I (and anybody else who could theoretically live in my apartment) had a spare $2000/month, forever, I'm pretty sure he'd want it.
The money in (real) UBI comes from somewhere, obviously. It's not like everyone just has more money. If you can already afford the basics then it's going to come out of your money in taxes to a greater or lesser degree. So for people in a normal middle income range you pay and then get the money back. Higher income people would pay more and get back the same as you. Low income people would pay little or nothing and get the same back as you.
How that actually plays out in a market like ours hasn't (can't) been fully tested, but it seems a promising idea.
Re: Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
#16I think removing red tape and allowing people to pay for things they need right now is an excellent way to speed people's recovery from poverty, but it needs nudges, and those nudges need to be informed by data and empirical evidence. We need to know what people are spending the money on so we know how to target the biggest problems as well as the corner cases. If you know what the actual problems are and where the m…
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Re: Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
#17I still haven't seen a good explanation for how UBI on a truly universal scale isn't going to just raise housing prices to capture the surplus. I mean, if my landlord knew I (and anybody else who could theoretically live in my apartment) had a spare $2000/month, forever, I'm pretty sure he'd want it.
That's always been what I wondered as well. UBI solves everything, except for the part where an actor who knows explicitly that all of his tenants will be getting a flat amount per month, then why not raise prices to capture some of that as well? Why wouldn't everything just increase in price slightly, everyone can afford a little bit more now.
I'm focused specifically on housing because approximately everybody needs somewhere to live. That ought to raise purchase prices and rent prices. In effect, it would mean anyone who bought before UBI raised the price would be subsidized by those who buy or rent afterward.
It seems like roughly the same economics as rent control: if I, as a landlord, own rent controlled units, then I want to make as much money off them as if they were not rent controlled. Unless I can get them reclassified, the only way to do so is to raise the monthly price so that over the course of an average tenancy, the numbers add up to what I could have rented the unit for without rent control. What you end up with is effectively a Ponzi scheme.
Re: Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
#18As related material that folks here might appreciate: Andrew Yang’s (founder of Venture for America) recent book “The War on Normal People: The Truth About America's Disappearing Jobs and Why Universal Basic Income Is Our Future” lays out a compelling argument for UBI, given the rise of automation and AI, as well as current economic and cultural shifts. Yang is also running for president 2020 on a UBI platform, dubbe…
He also did a Reddit AMA where he only answered the softball questions about UBI instead of how he would actually make it work. IMO, the guy is only running so he can sell more of his books.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/87aa2z/iama_andrew_ya...
Re: Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
#19I'm not sure this is "universal" basic income if it's only for 100 people...
Re: Free Cash to Fight Income Inequality? Stockton, CA Is First in US to Try
#20I still haven't seen a good explanation for how UBI on a truly universal scale isn't going to just raise housing prices to capture the surplus. I mean, if my landlord knew I (and anybody else who could theoretically live in my apartment) had a spare $2000/month, forever, I'm pretty sure he'd want it.
> I still haven't seen a good explanation for how UBI on a truly universal scale isn't going to just raise housing prices to capture the surplus. I mean, if my landlord knew I (and anybody else who could theoretically live in my apartment) had a spare $2000/month, forever, I'm pretty sure he'd want it.
This is one of the reasons why a local UBI doesn't really work.
If you have a national UBI, people can move. That landlord may try to capture the surplus in California, but with a UBI you can simply move somewhere cheaper.
People in the middle class forget that simply moving is expensive and requires a remarkable amount of cash up front.