USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff • Hacker News Board

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#51

Post by epicmellon » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:07 PM UTC

snomad wrote: post #38

epicmellon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what this is. GDPR is untenable and creates magical rights where none exist. You don't own information about you. Data is data. The only reasonable thing I can see out of it is getting companies to clarify (simplify) their EULAs.

> You don't own information about you. Data is data. This seems like a strange stance. Clearly some data is not just data and must be protected, for example Top Secret information. From a broad consumer perspective, we have FERPA and HIPAA, which place restrictions on educational and health information. Have you considered the wild west of no data restrictions was the anomaly, not the other way around? Or, are you of…

Well, I liken it to window shades. You don't own the photons bouncing off of you so if someone looks in your window and the shades aren't closed, then they aren't stealing your image.

If they try to circumvent the protections you put in place, that's different. Same thing with data.

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#52

Post by epicmellon » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

lawlessone wrote: post #29

epicmellon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what this is. GDPR is untenable and creates magical rights where none exist. You don't own information about you. Data is data. The only reasonable thing I can see out of it is getting companies to clarify (simplify) their EULAs.

>You don't own information about you. What are your credit card numbers? :)

(see my window shade example above)

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#53

Post by dbasedweeb » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

jrs95 wrote: post #44

xevb3k wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think more like this. Then when I thought about it I decided that essentially all “ownership” rights are like this. Intellectual property and physical property laws are artificial. There is no basic right, they are all rights created where “none exist”. They can be useful though, and part of how we decide what kind of society we want to create. Seems like Europe has decided that privacy and control of data…

Considering that these rules don’t apply to governments, and that European governments generally seem to be slipping towards jailing people for thought crime, I’m skeptical as to how serious they are about privacy and control of personal data.

Please if you can, give one example of a European government jailing someone for a thought crime. To save us both time and aggravation please keep the actual definition of “thought crime” in mind, and don’t conflate it with something people actually did.

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#54

Post by michaelbuckbee » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

epicmellon wrote: post #13

wyldfire wrote: post #3

A consumer protection law like GDPR would probably be a good thing for US, but it's hard not to see this as SFDC saying, "As a multibillion-dollar SaaS vendor, we welcome regulation that might slow down or prevent a competitor from unseating us."

That's exactly what this is. GDPR is untenable and creates magical rights where none exist. You don't own information about you. Data is data. The only reasonable thing I can see out of it is getting companies to clarify (simplify) their EULAs.

And if you tried to sketch out what should be in that EULA, you'd probably want to know:

- What data is being collected about you

- What they're doing to keep that data reasonably secured

- Who to contact should have you detect some security issue

- How to request that the company stop using your data

.....and we've reinvented the GDPR.

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#55

Post by bcmthrow » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

epicmellon wrote: post #13

wyldfire wrote: post #3

A consumer protection law like GDPR would probably be a good thing for US, but it's hard not to see this as SFDC saying, "As a multibillion-dollar SaaS vendor, we welcome regulation that might slow down or prevent a competitor from unseating us."

That's exactly what this is. GDPR is untenable and creates magical rights where none exist. You don't own information about you. Data is data. The only reasonable thing I can see out of it is getting companies to clarify (simplify) their EULAs.

This is why I am glad that a certain type of technically minded person has zero chance of having any political influence, ever.

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#56

Post by epicmellon » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

jellicle wrote: post #37

epicmellon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what this is. GDPR is untenable and creates magical rights where none exist. You don't own information about you. Data is data. The only reasonable thing I can see out of it is getting companies to clarify (simplify) their EULAs.

You also oppose copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret and official secrets laws, I suppose. DATA IS DATA. There's no nuance possible. It's just DATA, completely removed from the human realm.

Patents, yeah. Copyright and trademark are really about fraud than theft. Trade secrets are trade secrets: the violation comes from trying to circumvent security, not having the data itself. So I'd say it is very nuanced ;)

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#57

Post by sandworm101 » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

lawlessone wrote: post #29

epicmellon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what this is. GDPR is untenable and creates magical rights where none exist. You don't own information about you. Data is data. The only reasonable thing I can see out of it is getting companies to clarify (simplify) their EULAs.

>You don't own information about you. What are your credit card numbers? :)

CC numbers are something that you definitely do not own. You do not own your credit cards. They are the property of the corporations who issued them to you. That's why they can cancel/alter/confiscate them without going through the courts.

Same too for credit ratings. The right to view and alter them comes from various other common law rule (ie slander) but the credit rating itself belongs to the corporation that generates it.

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#58

Post by Someone1234 » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

epicmellon wrote: post #13

wyldfire wrote: post #3

A consumer protection law like GDPR would probably be a good thing for US, but it's hard not to see this as SFDC saying, "As a multibillion-dollar SaaS vendor, we welcome regulation that might slow down or prevent a competitor from unseating us."

That's exactly what this is. GDPR is untenable and creates magical rights where none exist. You don't own information about you. Data is data. The only reasonable thing I can see out of it is getting companies to clarify (simplify) their EULAs.

It is a guaranteed right enshrined in the EU's Constitution[0] (Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union[1]). Specifically Title II Freedoms: privacy, protection of personal data.

That's like claiming the 1st Amendment in the US is just a "magic right."

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitu... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_...

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#59

Post by SamReidHughes » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #27

greatamerican wrote: post #4

Such a law will not survive a Constitutional challenge. Just rent seeking by an incumbent.

Based on what?

When can Congress pass a law requiring newspapers to delete information it has collected about somebody?

Re: USA needs law 'a lot like GDPR' says Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff

#60

Post by epicmellon » Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #58

epicmellon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what this is. GDPR is untenable and creates magical rights where none exist. You don't own information about you. Data is data. The only reasonable thing I can see out of it is getting companies to clarify (simplify) their EULAs.

It is a guaranteed right enshrined in the EU's Constitution[0] (Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union[1]). Specifically Title II Freedoms: privacy, protection of personal data. That's like claiming the 1st Amendment in the US is just a "magic right." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitu... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_...

See above my comment about practicality. It takes no effort for me to not violate your first amendment rights. It's a negative right, not a positive right.