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Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

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Re: Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

#21

Post by sdhgaiojfsa »

sp332 wrote: post #12
jacknews wrote: post #2

There doesn't appear to be anything new about this, ground-source heat pumps have been available for domestic use for quite some time. And going by the name, and looks, it's actually an air-source heat-pump, but I could be wrong.

Dandelion uses a cheaper drilling method to reduce up-front costs. https://blog.x.company/introducing-dandelion-2706eded169a

I'm curious how much this affects the price. I'm not a homeowner any more, but when I was, I longed to replace my furnace with a ground-source heat pump. It is not too much of an efficiency win over gas for heating, especially since we used little heat, but it's great for cooling. But I was really put off by the price. There was no way to justify it even under the most pessimistic assumptions about energy prices, except perhaps if my furnace and AC were to break at the same time.

Re: Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

#22

Post by Eridrus »

josefresco wrote: post #15
justherefortart wrote: post #3

Dandelion Air is a geothermal system that moves heat between the house and the ground using plastic pipes and a pump -- bringing heat to the building in winter and pushing heat to the ground in summer. So what we've been putting in homes for ~40 years already. Thanks Google!

My local well drilling guy has offered "geothermal" for years (decades?) Despite a large inventory of wealthy second home owners, he didn't get and still doesn't get many takers. Meanwhile, rooftop solar is everywhere. My parents almost bought their "retirement home" with an existing geothermal system - it remains the only "real world" home instance of this technology that I have encountered. $20K also seems very clo…

I wonder, how "compatible" this is with solar.

I.e. if you install solar by itself, you save X dollars/month. If you install this by itself, you save Y dollars a month. If you install both, is it close to X+Y, or is there some substitution there?

On one hand, you can sell solar back to the grid, but you can't always sell it back at retail, so I would guess your savings would be smaller, but how much smaller? Or would you be able to achieve the same ROI with a smaller rooftop solar installation?

TBH, I'm not really a big fan of rooftop solar, it seems like a hack to deal with shitty environmental policy that undermines the electricity grid itself.

Re: Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

#24

Post by briffle »

mgkimsal wrote: post #10

> Installation isn't cheap. Dandelion estimates the cost at around $20,000, depending on home size and state and federal incentives. But the company notes that consumers are likely to save about 20 percent annually on the cost of home heating and cooling. Are they aiming at regular home owners? Our heating/cooling is ~ $2.4k/year - about $200/month. Fluctuates - summertime is sometimes higher, winter can bring high h…

They are targeting People in the Northeast first (NY), where Fuel Oil and Propane are very common sources of heat.

Re: Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

#25

Post by Retric »

sdhgaiojfsa wrote: post #21
sp332 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dandelion uses a cheaper drilling method to reduce up-front costs. https://blog.x.company/introducing-dandelion-2706eded169a

I'm curious how much this affects the price. I'm not a homeowner any more, but when I was, I longed to replace my furnace with a ground-source heat pump. It is not too much of an efficiency win over gas for heating, especially since we used little heat, but it's great for cooling. But I was really put off by the price. There was no way to justify it even under the most pessimistic assumptions about energy prices, exc…

I think cost is the biggest issue. If you want to reduce heating and cooling costs via investments then insulation + solar can cheaply make a huge difference.

Ground source scales well if you have a large building and a large body of water near by then the payback time is short. But at single family home level it's just not that useful.

Re: Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

#26

Post by olivermarks »

sp332 wrote: post #16
olivermarks wrote: post #14

Feels like a bit of 'jump the shark' moment for google...a geothermal heat pump called dandelion from an advertising and search company. Does it connect to nest and phone home information about our homes?

Yes, it comes with a Nest thermostat.

It appears they are using a better drilling method https://blog.x.company/introducing-dandelion-2706eded169a I was being cynical as we have a nest that underperforms and sometimes behaves erratically. The website focuses on exploiting subsidies to install. I'd like to know more about Dandelion in case I missed something, will be interesting to get feedback on effectiveness, performance and noise levels

Re: Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

#27

Post by martin_bech »

This makes no sense.. systems like this have existed for many years, and are not uncommon here in Denmark. But the newest thing is air to water heatpumps. They are even more effective, and have lower upfront cost. I just had one installed at my vacation home. It heats about 200 square meters and an indoor pool. It even has en app.. https://volundvt.dk/produkter/luft-til-vand-varmepumpe/sorti...

Re: Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

#28

Post by jqkeller »

Ground Source (geothermal) heat pumps are not new, but Dandelion is doing interesting/innovative things. Here is my understanding from keeping track of what they're up to for a little while.

First they've developed a new drilling rig to try and drop the drilling time, cost and mess by 10x. Call the drilling traditionally 50% of the cost. This is for doing vertical bore holes, instead of horizontal trenches.

Second, they're targeting/marketing directly to home owners in cold regions who use heating oil for heating. The data collection/marketing is ground breaking for residential HVAC, but I would guess probably nothing too amazing compared to any modern web company.

Third, they're bringing modern financing to the ground source heat pump space. Similar to solar leases/PPA's is my understanding.

Re: Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

#29

Post by ocdtrekkie »

mxuribe wrote: post #4
jacknews wrote: post #2

There doesn't appear to be anything new about this, ground-source heat pumps have been available for domestic use for quite some time. And going by the name, and looks, it's actually an air-source heat-pump, but I could be wrong.

I had heard that these types of systems existed/were used in places like Iceland (or was it Sweden?)...But I wasn't aware they could be leveraged in areas where there might not be as much underground geothermal activity. Unless, I'm misunderstanding what dependencies are needed for these types of systems to work. In any case, if this is not new, any competition to the way we heat/cool our homes - assuming it brings l…

Iceland gets a pretty nice chunk of their power from geothermal, and the cost effectiveness of geothermal power on a volcanic island (combined with a cold air temp that makes cooling easy) makes it a remarkably cheap place to mine bitcoin, as the case happens.

Another fun thing made possible by geothermal: Some roads and sidewalks in Reykjavik are actually heated to prevent icing over.

(And before someone says it: Yes, Greenland is colder, but Iceland still gets pretty freaking cold. After walking two miles or so in an Icelandic blizzard once, I feel like I can claim some expertise on the subject.)

Re: Google spinoff Dandelion uses ground energy to heat and cool homes

#30

Post by rossz »

jqkeller wrote: post #28

Ground Source (geothermal) heat pumps are not new, but Dandelion is doing interesting/innovative things. Here is my understanding from keeping track of what they're up to for a little while. First they've developed a new drilling rig to try and drop the drilling time, cost and mess by 10x. Call the drilling traditionally 50% of the cost. This is for doing vertical bore holes, instead of horizontal trenches. Second, t…

Apparently abrasive media cutting, using concrete driven by hypersonic air (? maybe)

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/is-go...

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