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De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

money.cnn.com

351–360 of 455 posts

Re: De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

#351
post #305
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diamonds have little resale value because of high retail markups, on top of previous De Beers monopoly price controls. If someone paid $3000 retail for a ring, good luck getting $700 for it.

If that is true, where can I buy second-hand diamonds for a fraction of the cost? I've looked and I can't find any.

Pawn shop?

I don't know if they actually do this but I imagine if you sell your ring to a jeweler they can send it off for the band to be melted down the stone to be polished and re-set so the resulting ring is resold as "new."

Re: De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

#352
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same author, earlier exploration: The Man in the High Castle (1962) explored it in the context of otherwise-identical objects, one of which was involved in some historic event, the other of which wasn't

Was this what they covered in the TV show with the fake antiques? They didn't dwell too much on it, I really should read the book.

IIRC in the TV show there's a scene where the Americana shopkeeper (Mr. Childan) shows someone two identical cigarette lighters, one of which was in the pocket of FDR when FDR was assassinated (Man in the High Castle takes place in an alternate timeline). In the novel, this is actually done by the owner of the fake-gun-factory, and it gets a longer treatment.

Re: De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

#354

Interestingly enough, this starts to bring up questions that have previously only been super active in science fiction circles, particularly, Star Trek: If you can perfectly recreate something down to the molecular level, what actually has value? (Assuming, someday, that synthetic versions are excessively cheap, in Star Trek's case.) If you can replicate cooked food perfectly, will people still claim that "real" food…

> Interestingly enough, this starts to bring up questions that have previously only been super active in science fiction circles, particularly, Star Trek: If you can perfectly recreate something down to the molecular level, what actually has value? (Assuming, someday, that synthetic versions are excessively cheap, in Star Trek's case.)

This is really getting at a core contradiction in how we analyze value. On the one hand, you have something's monetary value. This is the exchange value - the value you can get, denominated in a currency, via a sale. On the other hand, something you need has value because it fulfills a role when you use it. This is use value.

We don't consider use value at all when talking about the value of a good and consider the exchange value to be paramount. But this makes no sense. When you're starving, a loaf of bread is quite literally worth your entire world. When you have plenty of food, one more loaf of bread is worth almost nothing at all. When you need to get around, one car is extremely useful. Hundreds of cars together are essentially worthless, except perhaps to rent to others (literally rent-seeking).

If you can recreate something down to its molecular level, and produce arbitrarily many copies, then it's only value can be its use value. And use value is difficult to quantify as it's tied to the subjective experience of need.

> If you can replicate cooked food perfectly, will people still claim that "real" food, grown, slaughtered, and cooked, is "better" or tastes "more authentic", despite no technical difference?

I suspect that some amount of this comes from our attempts to justify the price we pay. It costs more, and so it must be worth more. We invent reasons in our minds to justify the dissonance. Though, if you experience something better, there isn't really any argument that can satisfactorily say that you don't, since experience is subjective, anyway.

Re: De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

#355
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates seeds you can't harvest, plant and grow again to maintain a captive market. When it can't do that, it sues farmers that harvest, plan and grow the seed it wants to protect. This includes Monsanto's crops contaminating other crops like in the Vernon Hugh Bowman case. It also promoted (at least in France) round up as biodegradable but we eventually found out it didn't, and went to contaminate the drinking wa…

The Supreme Court unanimously disagreed with you on Bowman v. Monsanto so I fail to see what was unethical there. In fact Vernon Bowman intentionally violated a contract that he voluntarily entered into so it seems clear he was the unethical party.

Legality and ethics are very different things.

Re: De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

#356
post #10

"Lightbox will transform the lab-grown diamond sector by offering consumers a lab-grown product they have told us they want but aren't getting: affordable fashion jewelry that may not be forever, but is perfect for right now" This is clearly a play to devalue the image of man made diamonds. "May not be forever" my ass, it's the exact same thing. Their goal is probably to try to quickly drive the price of man made dia…

Obviously they will fight to keep their monopoly and protect their cache. Just like lab grown meat is gaining traction, I think synthetic companies have the ability to push the social angle. "Identical in composition to the diamonds mined by slaves and used to finance terrorism." Just need an English major to turn that into a catchy slogan! :)

NB: cachet vs. cache:

https://www.grammarbook.com/homonyms/cache-cash.asp

Re: De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

#357
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The names ruby and sapphire are not marketing driven; they are color terms that long predate the development of chemistry to the point where we could determine what gems were. Many famous historical "rubies" are not corundum but spinel; they were called rubies because "ruby" was the term for any red gemstone. "Moissanite" is purely marketing, though.

I can also verify this. I currently have 932 flawless imperial rubies in my stash and they are all red.

One of the drawbacks of being dragonborn is the hoarding instinct.

Re: De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously they will fight to keep their monopoly and protect their cache. Just like lab grown meat is gaining traction, I think synthetic companies have the ability to push the social angle. "Identical in composition to the diamonds mined by slaves and used to finance terrorism." Just need an English major to turn that into a catchy slogan! :)

NB: cachet vs. cache: https://www.grammarbook.com/homonyms/cache-cash.asp

Sorry, my statement was vague. I did mean cache as in horde. They have stockpiles of "value" that they will protect at all costs.

Re: De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

#359
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was this what they covered in the TV show with the fake antiques? They didn't dwell too much on it, I really should read the book.

IIRC in the TV show there's a scene where the Americana shopkeeper (Mr. Childan) shows someone two identical cigarette lighters, one of which was in the pocket of FDR when FDR was assassinated (Man in the High Castle takes place in an alternate timeline). In the novel, this is actually done by the owner of the fake-gun-factory, and it gets a longer treatment.

I remember that scene. Now I have even more reason to read the book :)

Re: De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds

#360
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit reductive. Retail diamonds are usually priced on their size and the maker of the jewelry that surrounds them. There are investment grade diamonds, but as the article "Diamonds are Bullshit" that is currently at the top of HN[1] illustrates, appraisers sometimes deviate by 100% on that estimate. However if you buy a $7000 ring from Tiffany and walk out the store to a buyer and can get $1000, it is still s…

By that definition, just about anything is a store of value. " That Bic pen I just bought at the mall? Store of value " Usually when people refer to something as a store of value, it's understood that it's a good store of value.

Good can mean different things. A given volume/weight of diamonds will typically be worth much more than an equivalent amount of bic pens, or even of gold, so in that sense, diamonds are pretty efficient.
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