Earlier quoted context omitted.
if no one paid, there would be no more kidnappings for ransom
Who would ever not pay their own ransom?
Well Getty famously didn't want to pay his grandsons!
Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
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Re: Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
#42One thing I don't quite get... Say I've kidnapped someone and the ransom has been paid. I could release the hostage but then there would be someone with knowledge of my operation out there walking about. If I killed the hostage instead, I'll have eliminated that risk and I can keep the ransom. It's not like anyone is going to sue me for not keeping my side of the contract. Maybe I'm going to get a reputation for kill…
Kidnappers are still part of a community and a society. Often they even have political or social goals beyond just greed, or there are others that may get affected by their actions. For example Somali pirates don't each operate completely independently and the actions of one group can very directly affect other groups. So if one bunch of pirates kidnap the crew of a commercial vessel, take the ransom and then kill them, there will be a lot of very upset rival or allied pirates who's chances of getting a ransom payday themselves just got hurt.
Then there's the fact that while the authorities will put in an effort to track down kidnappers and bring them to justice, they'll put in an awful lot more resources into tracking down murderers.
Re: Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
#43One thing I don't quite get... Say I've kidnapped someone and the ransom has been paid. I could release the hostage but then there would be someone with knowledge of my operation out there walking about. If I killed the hostage instead, I'll have eliminated that risk and I can keep the ransom. It's not like anyone is going to sue me for not keeping my side of the contract. Maybe I'm going to get a reputation for kill…
What this makes me think is that the motivation is money, not murder. They may not enjoy the murder, but if it's what gives you a reputation that you should 'pay up', then it's a messy means to and end.
Re: Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Before K&R insurers got together, firms and wealthy families were paying badly negotiated sky high ransoms. Now professionals negotiators with ice running through their veins negotiate much better "deals" and also reduce the risk of death by two thirds. Much lower ransoms should mean kidnapping is less profitable and so supply should decrease (of kidnappings).
if no one paid, there would be no more kidnappings for ransom
How many of your own family members would you be prepared to sacrifice towards that principle?
Re: Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
#45One thing I don't quite get... Say I've kidnapped someone and the ransom has been paid. I could release the hostage but then there would be someone with knowledge of my operation out there walking about. If I killed the hostage instead, I'll have eliminated that risk and I can keep the ransom. It's not like anyone is going to sue me for not keeping my side of the contract. Maybe I'm going to get a reputation for kill…
Your doing the right thing by doing a cost-benefit from their perspective, but your completely misjudging the costs of releasing a hostage vs. murdering someone.
Re: Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Before K&R insurers got together, firms and wealthy families were paying badly negotiated sky high ransoms. Now professionals negotiators with ice running through their veins negotiate much better "deals" and also reduce the risk of death by two thirds. Much lower ransoms should mean kidnapping is less profitable and so supply should decrease (of kidnappings).
if no one paid, there would be no more kidnappings for ransom
That is not true. Past performance does not predict the stupidity of horrible peoples future actions.
Re: Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
#47When I lived/worked in a high-risk kidnapping environment, I ever got K&R insurance. What I wanted was "retribution insurance" -- some plan which would guarantee some people would investigate and kill everyone in any substantial way affiliated with the kidnapping -- and to loudly communicate the existence of this policy in advance. Being recovered would be great, but having kidnappings deterred entirely would be even…
I'm not sure if that would be an effective way to get kidnappings deterred. There are varied policies on kidnappings, discussed here: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/09/01/548032302/epis... Interestingly the "no ransoms" policy seems to be quite problematic.
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Re: Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
#48When I lived/worked in a high-risk kidnapping environment, I ever got K&R insurance. What I wanted was "retribution insurance" -- some plan which would guarantee some people would investigate and kill everyone in any substantial way affiliated with the kidnapping -- and to loudly communicate the existence of this policy in advance. Being recovered would be great, but having kidnappings deterred entirely would be even…
> US citizenship largely serves this purpose, at least if it's a high profile kidnapping (which any kidnapping in Iraq/Afghanistan/etc. would have been.)
Seems it's a double edged sword being a US or indeed a UK or European citizen in places like Iraq/Afghanistan. On the one hand yes your government is a force to be reckoned with, on the other hand it makes you a huge target.
I do however recall reading about the British Empire, where a British botanist was kidnapped by a tribe in Africa. The British army turned up and pounded the hills where the tribe were rumoured to be living with cannon balls continuously for a week. The botanist was let go. Things of course have changed now...I doubt the US or UK government could say to a kidnapper today 'alright we're going to drop artillery on your neighbourhood until you let our guy go'.
Re: Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
#49What factors are considered in the risk models to price ransom insurance?
Re: Kidnapping insurance keeps a lid on ransom inflation
#50Way back, I had an 18yo Colombian gf whom I considered visiting under the assumption of buying reasonably-priced, short-term K&R insurance. At the time, Colombia was the top kidnapping spot, more-so than anywhere in the Middle East or Africa, because the FARC was funding their operations through drugs and ransoms. Even though she lived in the safest and most protected area, there was the risk of problems in transit i…
Seems like it would have been way cheaper to just buy her a plane ticket to the US.