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Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#131

Post by hndamien »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #126
hndamien wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is funny how rather than debating the point and relying on what words actually mean resolves to pedantry on hackernews.

Like how you're ignoring the repeated assertions that Tesla salespeople and Musk are misrepresenting or outright lying about the "autopilot's" capabilities? If you want to debate the point, you can't just ignore all the parts that you inconveniently have no answer to.

I ignored what Tesla sales people say because it is anecdotal and contrary to what I experienced when I bought mine.

Far from ignore the parts "I have no answer to", I acknowledge the parts that are misleading like the video. I can only presume that you ignored reading my comments and enjoy misleading yourself.

I'll place it here for you again to read.

"I will admit showing a video of full hands off video, not on a highway, underneath a statement about the hardware, showing off software being used in a way that is not recommended in the manual is bad."

Good on you for editing "smug pedant" out of your comment.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#132

Post by modzu »

olliej wrote: post #6

I really wish all the car manufacturers would stop with this bullshit "you still have to be driving it" self driving nonsense. Claiming that the driver is still responsible for driving the car, while using a system designed to encourage the "driver" to not pay attention is a dumb idea, and all I can see is this kind of thing leading to regulations the delay actual self driving cars. I'm not a self-driving car fanboy…

its utterly insane

uh, isn't a self-driving car you have to drive an oxymoron?? does anybody understand words??

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#133

Post by goshx »

gwern wrote: post #34
danso wrote: post #26

Assuming that every major AP collision, it is pretty amusing that the latest non-fatal ones have all coincidentally involved emergency vehicles. I imagine it must be related to how such vehicles have the right to park just about anywhere, including on roadways in which drivers do not expect parked vehicles.

The photo looks like it was parked in a marked parking spot (those white crossed lines indicating each slot along the curb).

Half on the sidewalk, half on the road.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#134

Post by DannyBee »

mikeash wrote: post #30

How many non-Autopilot cars have crashed into parked vehicles? It happens a lot, to the extent that a lot of states have “move over” laws explicitly designed to reduce it. Does Autopilot actually make the problem worse, or is it just more newsworthy?

If you go look at IIHS, they have tests that will tell you exactly how good non-Autopilot cars are at this kind of crash avoidance:

I cannot find any current (2018) car that crashes into the parked car.

(I only spot-checked prior years). I found one in 2014 (audi q5) that hits the car at 1mph when going 12mph.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/audi/q5-4-door-su...

By contrast, the 2014 subaru outback avoids collision even at 25mph.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/subaru/outback-4-...

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#135

Post by rando444 »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #96
njarboe wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not any worse than the term cruise control really.

You're getting downvoted, but I agree. A commercial pilot doesn't flip on autopilot and start browsing the internet on a phone or take a nap. And that's at 30k feet where there's little traffic to worry about. It seems like a misunderstanding of what the technology does, by consumers and the media. I'm no expert on Tesla's marketing history, but I'm of the opinion that these crashes are due to drivers misunderstandin…

I get your argument, but pilots do sleep all the time. Usually they take turns, but there have been multiple incidents that we know about where both pilots have fallen asleep at the same time.. we only ever hear about them if the pilot overshoots the airport, or in one case, the pilots self-reported it to encourage others to talk about the issue.

It's extremely likely it happens more often than we think and that most pilots simply just aren't going to voluntarily give up that information.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#136

Post by jellicle »

ModernMech wrote: post #54
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame Elon Musk. I'm serious. He's been promising "self-driving" for years, except the damn technology isn't ready/safe enough for what people are clearly using this from. The manufacturer puts a warning label, but the usage model/UI is clearly flawed. His engineers know this, which is why Tesla's self-driving group has had such a high turnover rate over the last few years. Musk keeps overriding them.

> The manufacturer puts a warning label, but the usage model/UI is clearly flawed. Not just the model/UI but the actual sensor suite. Remember, the Tesla that resulted in a decapitation had over-saturated cameras that couldn't see a tractor trailer. Of course, that's where the UI comes into play, because if the driver hadn't been watching Harry Potter, he would have seen the tractor trailer as well.

The NTSB report said that the driver was not watching any movie.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#137

Post by imh »

hndamien wrote: post #55
jonknee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow it super closely but there is exactly 1 car manufacture that I can think of guilty of pushing the self driving myth. The established car makers seem to market it as an assist, not as an autopilot. Tesla is the outlier, everyone else is much more conservative.

Auto pilot != Self driving. People love to conflate these two so much that the people saying it rely on everybody else conflating it to justify their ignorance. This is just like Fox "some people say" - Fox people say! Or Javascript Bitcoin miners - Monero is not Bitcoin! It's snowing so there is no global warming - It is "climate change" but the entire globe is warming! This hurricane is just weather, not climate ch…

Those things are nothing alike. Some are facts that can be checked, others are definitions. If people all agree that the sun won't come up tomorrow, it's still coming up. If people all agree to start using a word in a new way, then it's time to change the dictionary.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#138

Post by keerthiko »

Tesla could still salvage this somewhat by loudly rebranding Autopilot to "Cruise Control 2.0" and issuing a serious apology.

But somehow they (or just Elon?) seem unreasonably averse to doing that. The man is losing hero-status by the minute.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#139

Post by childintime »

confiscate wrote: post #91

I don't get it, why is it so hard to detect stationary objects in front of you? wouldn't that be the "hello world" of any self-driving tech? Every time I ask this question, the response is "radar as a technology has too much noise, not accurate enough to detect stationary objects". But it DOES detect stationary objects. Otherwise no one would even turn on Tesla AP at all. Why is it so hard to detect stationary object…

The usual answer is that the signal that reflects of many stationary objects, like trees, cars, all of which have the same dopler shift and must normally be discarded.

Still, this answer doesn't quite satisfy, because it ignores the very strong signal that exists right before a crash, which crash avoidance technologies do (seem to) use.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#140

Post by mikeash »

desdiv wrote: post #119
mikeash wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly we’re trusting Elon to deliver on his tweets?

Here are the easter eggs in action, on a production vehicle: https://youtu.be/1GrNv3ow9H8?t=640 Weird, the tweet was dated 2018-05-22 but the Youtube video shows easter eggs already deployed by 2018-05-23. I know all Tesla vehicles have automatic over-the-air updates but that's still surprisingly quick. Must be Musk playing around with his time machine again.

Yes, there are easter eggs. I was replying to a comment that said “video games.”
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