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Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

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Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#111

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

lclarkmichalek wrote: post #104
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. I was recommended to a specific domain-specialized role in Facebook by someone with a long tenure inside the company, and after the recommendation, I was just auto-routed into the standard, crappy candidate pipeline like everyone else, told I'd have to do whatever 6-month rotation bootcamp, asked why I didn't have a bunch of Javascript experience. It certainly felt like they make an effort to pedantical…

So everyone in the same role goes through the same interview, and everyone in the same role goes through the same 6 week bootcamp. The aim, as I understand it, is to avoid talk like 'that person was hired into team X, they must suck at Y' or 'org X is easy to get in to, I wouldn't want to work with someone who was hired into it', and to allow more internal mobility without the need to reinterview. I can join any team…

As a matter of great personal pride, I do suck at Javascript :)

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#112

Post by galieos_ghost »

shawnfratis wrote: post #95
afpx wrote: post #2

Excellent news! Up until age 39, I was never not given an offer after interviewing. Now after 40, my offer rate has dropped to 1 in 14. So much for the claims that there is a shortage in tech. So crazy.

>Up until age 39, I was never not given an offer after interviewing. Now after 40, my offer rate has dropped to 1 in 14. Sorry to say this, but get used, as I have, to getting flooded with employment offers that might as well have a note on the bottom that says "all are welcome to apply-EXCEPT YOU." Why they bother to waste resources to send these out is beyond me, unless they are just sadistic.

Boggles my mind that companies do this. I'm just out of college and am amazed by the depth of knowledge older programmers have. A lot of them can find bugs on an almost instinctive level .

I think it might come down to founders being insecure around older engineers who probably won't be afraid to call them out on dumb decisions and won't be as likely to drink the hpye kool-aid because they've seen it all before.

Seems like an opportunity for startups to get great talent.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#113

Post by cableshaft »

oblio wrote: post #72
master_yoda_1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The facebook CEO is very famous for his quote by the way. https://www.cnet.com/news/say-what-young-people-are-just-sma...

He'll get around. He's still young. Let's see what tune he sings when he's 45-50.

He might not change his tune too much. Unlike other people that turn 45-50, he'll be going into his mid 40s a billionaire and won't ever need to experience ageism against himself directly.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#114

Post by cannonedhamster »

Mc_Big_G wrote: post #64
yathroaway wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Management

No one will even talk to you about a management position, without already having been a manager, no matter how much experience you have as a developer. The only path to management is to acquire it from the inside.

This is the absolute truth. I've been a lead or performing the role of a lead for most of my career. Recently I started taking on management responsibilities, then I got a new VP who decided I needed a manager because I didn't have the experience. I've seen people who can't manage their way out of a paper bag, but seemingly despite the fact that I've been filling the role for the past year, I'm not qualified for it. It's very frustrating.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#115

Post by astura »

p0nce wrote: post #12
afpx wrote: post #2

Excellent news! Up until age 39, I was never not given an offer after interviewing. Now after 40, my offer rate has dropped to 1 in 14. So much for the claims that there is a shortage in tech. So crazy.

Readers: what's your exit strategy? You probably need one.

I don't need one.

Most people at my current company are >40 (and probably >50 - I don't know everyone's exact age but I can infer somewhat). ~90% are married.

I've worked a bunch of places and, quite frankly, none have had an overly young crowd. Experience has always been valued everywhere I've worked.

So in my experience its just not a problem for the companies I want to/do/have worked for. I live nowhere near San Francisco.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#116

Post by tyrust »

afpx wrote: post #101
DavidWoof wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a programmer in my late 50s. While age discrimination is real, and I certainly have my share of "not a culture fit" and "overqualified" rejections over the past 10 years, if you're getting rejected over 90% of the time then I strongly suspect the problem isn't age discrimination. It's much more likely that your skills are out of date or you've gained some bad interviewing habits that you should examine. If people…

No way. Sorry to be blunt. Sure, my speed has decreased a little. But, I make better decisions which saves orders more time. And, my skills are still solidly top 15-20%. I know most modern databases, Java, Scala, Python, JavaScript, Angular, React ... the list goes on. I only claim to be an expert in things I’m actually an expert in. To be fair, I do try to interview at interesting companies. So, that could be the pr…

Resistance to constructive criticism is a potential no-hire signal.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#117

Post by CPLX »

dvtrn wrote: post #102
DavidWoof wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a programmer in my late 50s. While age discrimination is real, and I certainly have my share of "not a culture fit" and "overqualified" rejections over the past 10 years, if you're getting rejected over 90% of the time then I strongly suspect the problem isn't age discrimination. It's much more likely that your skills are out of date or you've gained some bad interviewing habits that you should examine. If people…

"Overqualified" has got to be the softest insult you can throw at a job seeker. It ostensibly says "we aren't secure in ourselves as employers to challenge our workers to produce great work, nor do we value original thought, so we'd rather hire drones that don't rattle the cage".

As someone that's hired a lot of people being overqualified is an actual reason not to want to hire an applicant. The reason is because they are not likely to last in the position. Not every company is some high growth engineering phenomenon. Sometimes you need someone to fill a specific role and you'd like them to be stable in that role.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#118

Post by sandworm101 »

Take this from a former tech lawyer: The startups that only want kids and new grads are hiding skeletons. They know they are doing something incorrectly/illegally and don't want anyone in the building who is likely to recognize such mistakes, let alone object to them. They fear industry knowledge and experience.

Typical example: I had a couple clients who sent new staff on unpaid "training" courses, in violation of labour laws. They only hired kids and so by the time I showed up this had been going on for ten years. The founders knew, but all under them didn't know a thing about labour laws, including the extensive HR department. Then one day a former employee sent an email ... and I handed the client to a litigator to prepare the response to the class action by former employees.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#119

Post by mattnewton »

ashelmire wrote: post #49
p0nce wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Readers: what's your exit strategy? You probably need one.

Age discrimination in tech is dumb. I've got a dev 30 years my senior sitting across from me and I guarantee he will code circles around 90% of the devs on HN, and 100% of the new grads getting jobs at big tech (and will until he dies). He's got a huge amount of knowledge in programming, our domain (NLP), he's fast, thorough, and thoughtful. Honestly I don't get the obsession with recent grads. They are basically use…

It’s cheaper to buy many lottery ticket new grads, a few who might turn out brilliant, and just burn out the others convincing them to work harder than people who know better will. Then, sometimes managers get burnt out experienced engineers who nevertheless stay, and maybe some managers form negative stereotypes about experienced engineers. This is what I have seen in practice at a former job and it seems to fit the data to me.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#120

Post by StevePerkins »

save_ferris wrote: post #15
p0nce wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Readers: what's your exit strategy? You probably need one.

What are some common exit strategies in the industry? It seems like early startup options for employees are more of a lottery ticket than retirement plan.

You move one of the larger, more conservative companies that employ probably 90% of the world's tech workforce. You do the non-sexy ETL work, or line-of-business app development, that 90% of the world's developer workforce does.

Web forums are RIDICULOUSLY overweighted toward students and younger startup employees. Partially because older workers have jobs and families and better stuff to do than play online. Partially because the work they do isn't particularly worth writing about, and the latest fads aren't that relevant to their work.

But please don't have the misguided assumption that what you see on HN or Reddit is truly representative of the industry as a whole. It took me a long time, and a lot of unnecessary anxiety, to wake up and see the bigger picture.

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