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How gender bias affects healthcare

bbc.com

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Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#11

Post by tomp »

Spivak wrote: post #9
tomp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A 2013 review found that groups associated with higher levels of neuroticism are young adults who are at high risk for mood disorders and women. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism Edit: this isn't to say that there isn't a bias... maybe doctors know this already, but assume that the effect is bigger than it is? Alternatively, they don't know this, and could treat their patients better if they had known.…

"Group X has a higher rate of Y" =/> "We should treat every member of X as if they have Y"

I agree, see my edit.

Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#12

Post by Spivak »

mrybczyn wrote: post #6
whichdan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not perpetuate more of the bias and sexism that the article is talking about.

Sex differences in the genetic sense exist, and are founded on physics, chemistry and biology. Let's not hide from them either, veiled behind ideological double-speak. Balance.

Not sexist: "Women on average have a higher rate of mood disorders."

Sexist: "I'm going to be more skeptical of this particular woman's experience because she's a woman and probably is just hysterical."

Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#13

Post by tptacek »

mrybczyn wrote: post #6
whichdan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not perpetuate more of the bias and sexism that the article is talking about.

Sex differences in the genetic sense exist, and are founded on physics, chemistry and biology. Let's not hide from them either, veiled behind ideological double-speak. Balance.

Comments like this don't say anything. Obviously sex differences "in the genetic sense" exist; we have different sets of organs to prove it. That doesn't mean every attribute assigned to women on message boards is worth entertaining.

Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#14

Post by Spooky23 »

tehwebguy wrote: post #4

> ...it took another few years to find another set of doctors who would take her symptoms seriously. “I had a lot of, ‘You’re just hysterical,’ ” she remembers. “One of the more common things, especially in emergency rooms, was ‘You’re just drug seeking.’” > As a woman of colour, Jackie was facing more than gender bias. A friend of mine (black, female) was shooed away by doctors as "drug seeking" and later told she h…

Your story sounds worse to me -- you sought medical attention for a problem, received a dangerous drug with no meaningful diagnosis. I'm sure your insurance company still received a big bill for those 2 minutes.

I (white, male) have had similar experiences to your friend, minus the "drug seeking" accusation. Things like cysts and tumors are difficult to diagnose without imaging, and imaging is difficult to justify without symptoms. Lyme disease is often doctor-speak for "no idea".

Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#15

Post by yasp »

Spivak wrote: post #12
mrybczyn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex differences in the genetic sense exist, and are founded on physics, chemistry and biology. Let's not hide from them either, veiled behind ideological double-speak. Balance.

Not sexist: "Women on average have a higher rate of mood disorders." Sexist: "I'm going to be more skeptical of this particular woman's experience because she's a woman and probably is just hysterical."

Suppose for the sake of argument that on average women have higher rates of thinking something is physically wrong with them when there isn't. Is it not rational for doctors to take a Bayesian approach and weight their diagnoses accordingly?

Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#16

Post by rich-and-poor »

whichdan wrote: post #5
aristocles wrote: post #3

Women are on average more neurotic than men, therefore physicians will be more skeptical of their claims; psychosomatic symptoms are more common for females.

Let's not perpetuate more of the bias and sexism that the article is talking about.

Women _are_ on average more neurotic than men. You don't get to shoo-shoo the facts away.

Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#17

Post by dagw »

yasp wrote: post #15
Spivak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sexist: "Women on average have a higher rate of mood disorders." Sexist: "I'm going to be more skeptical of this particular woman's experience because she's a woman and probably is just hysterical."

Suppose for the sake of argument that on average women have higher rates of thinking something is physically wrong with them when there isn't. Is it not rational for doctors to take a Bayesian approach and weight their diagnoses accordingly?

Is it not rational for doctors to take a Bayesian approach and weight their diagnoses accordingly?

Not without having very detailed information on exactly how big the difference is and, equally important, how these differences are distributed within each sub-population.

Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#18

Post by 23443463455 »

PunchTornado wrote: post #2

Meanwhile, men are accorded fewer visits at doctors (GP) in UK. 32% fewer visits compared to women: http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/3/8/e003320 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8588686.stm When I go to the GP she makes me feel like I'm intruding and wasting her time, like you're a man in your 20s, nothing could be wrong..

df

Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#19

Post by Dove »

yasp wrote: post #15
Spivak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sexist: "Women on average have a higher rate of mood disorders." Sexist: "I'm going to be more skeptical of this particular woman's experience because she's a woman and probably is just hysterical."

Suppose for the sake of argument that on average women have higher rates of thinking something is physically wrong with them when there isn't. Is it not rational for doctors to take a Bayesian approach and weight their diagnoses accordingly?

Rational, yes; fair, no.

Group differences are real, and burying or ignoring that truth is doomed to failure, since it is obvious. However, we have a moral responsibility to evaluate every person as an individual - to give each the benefit of the doubt, regardless of how people who look like them tend to behave.

I myself think this is a two way street. If you belong to a group with a particular characteristic and you're an exception, you may need to make an effort to make that explicit - with a statement, via behavior, via dress. And it is not evil when people make assumptions about you; it's understandable. At the same time, we should try to be fair to everyone, to keep in mind that exceptions exist to every rule, and to allow others to change our first perceptions of them easily. I think this approach walks the line between truth and justice, though I am certainly open to hearing a better strategy.

Re: How gender bias affects healthcare

#20

Post by matthewmacleod »

PunchTornado wrote: post #2

Meanwhile, men are accorded fewer visits at doctors (GP) in UK. 32% fewer visits compared to women: http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/3/8/e003320 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8588686.stm When I go to the GP she makes me feel like I'm intruding and wasting her time, like you're a man in your 20s, nothing could be wrong..

Maybe get a better GP?

Seriously, I've never encountered this attitude. Doctors seem to be generally fairly clinical and professional.

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