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America has a truck driver shortage

washingtonpost.com

191–200 of 404 posts

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#191
post #2

I am so sick of this perpetual fallacy about labor shortages. If you can't find enough workers it means you need to raise the price you're offering. (But yasp the article cited one particular firm has already increased prices 15% this year.) Doesn't matter. There is a certain price at which the market will clear. If the market isn't clearing it's because the price being offered is too low. Keep trying.

By your logic entire concept of labour shortage is outrageous because any shortage will clear with high enough price. But for any job such as that of Truck drive the market value of that job is only X. Paying more than X would mean you should look for alternatives and get out of that business. As the truck diver salaries go up cost of everything that relies on transportation also goes up marginally. Suddenly the stru…

> By your logic entire concept of labour shortage is outrageous because any shortage will clear with high enough price.

Per wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortage#Causes

In a perfect market (one that matches a simple microeconomic model), an excess of demand will prompt sellers to increase prices until demand at that price matches the available supply, establishing market equilibrium. In economic terminology, a shortage occurs when for some reason (such as government intervention, or decisions by sellers not to raise prices) the price does not rise to reach equilibrium. In this circumstance, buyers want to purchase more at the market price than the quantity of the good or service that is available, and some non-price mechanism (such as "first come, first served" or a lottery) determines which buyers are served. So in a perfect market the only thing that can cause a shortage is price.

So while it can happen, 99% of the time these articles are just some company complaining about the cost of labour which they don't want to pay.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#193

If you're an employer and you cant find employees, the answer is virtually always to increase total compensation. Theres no reason $80k is the top end of the pay range for any job. The economy does not price jobs based on prestige, education level, or some other signal... that's a judgement made by certain people about what they think a job is worth.. not the market. The opinions of people about the worth of a job ar…

>If you're an employer and you cant find employees, the answer is virtually always to increase total compensation. Most cases I would guess this is true until you hit the point that the pay is enough to live comfortably. Then it changes. My partner was recently approached for a position offering compensation more than 200% of their current for the same work. However,the hiring process is exposing red flags hinting at…

I'd happily put up with a toxic work environment for double my pay. My costs are fixed so if I tolerate it for a couple of years that's a lot of money to put towards some major investments, it could easily pay off the rest of my apartment in a year.

IME places like this usually pay low to middle of the road salaries though, I suspect you partner may have avoided a bait and switch hiring process.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#194
post #41

I hired the same company to move my car across the country then back four years apart. The same man drove the truck. He told me he expects the company will shut down in another decade or two as it’s too hard to find good reliable drivers who want a long term trucking job. It’s a family run company with a stellar reputation and they aren’t interested in short timers

I'll be shipping a car soon - have any contact details you can pass along?

What's your starting point? Maybe I could drive it for you!

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#195
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar story here. My brother drives the I-40 route from West Texas to Arizona. He had a short stint doing City of Industry to Stockton. Hated every second of driving through LA, Grapevine and anywhere north of Bakersfield. Food choices are pretty much the same considering you can't venture far off the interstate and its rare that there's anything good _right_ off the five.

Maybe this is a startup opportunity, take food from local restaurants and rendezvous it in bulk at truck stops.

You'd better research how many truckers would be able to afford it first.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#196
post #172

There's an Indian start up addressing some of the issues with long haul driving by turning them into short haul ones. This way people work closer to home. I thought that was innovative.

Do you have a name or link?

For some reason I can see this company operating like an uber with tractors waiting at way points to swap trailers. Problem is the swaps will be conducted at the drivers discretion which opens the flood gates to all sorts of abusive shenanigans and race to the bottom economics. I can picture all the complaints of drivers meeting in private parking lots causing damage and trespass. Or meeting in residential neighborhoods off highways causing all sorts of noise and possible damage. Excessive idling causing noise and air pollution, drivers taking up parking or partly blocking roads while waiting for other truck which is trapped in two hours of back up.

These are heavy vehicles that make a lot of noise and beat on the pavement. Best keep them rolling along the highways where they belong. That or keep the heavy duty noise to terminals located in industrial or commercial centers where people wont be bothered by the racket.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#197
post #154

Brazil's current trucker strike brought to light how things could go if there were a similar strike in the States. The BBC article below doesn't say much about the lack of products available for the average person living in a major city, but friends in Brazil said the repercussions to their day-to-day life have been large. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-44275782

> but friends in Brazil said the repercussions to their day-to-day life have been large. Yes, they have. First, the fuel situation: trucks carrying fuel to gas stations were blocked by strikers, so they quickly ran out of fuel. Buses need diesel fuel to run, so people can't get to work. Cars also need fuel (gasoline or ethanol) to run, so even people who have cars can't get to work. Those with gas-powered cars (mostl…

> Those with gas-powered cars (mostly taxis) could still get fuel (it goes to the gas station through pipes

That's interesting. So the gas stations have compressors?

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#198
post #88

At a rough point in my life, I was a truck driver for CR England and Knight Transportation for a few days short of 7 months. You don’t start at 80,000 a year. That’s such a lie. You make about 600 a week to start, roughly, depending if you get enough miles. You don’t get the good routes, staying in well populated areas like the i5 corridor, at first. You stay in the middle of no where Arizona, North Dakota, etc. You…

I'm loving reading all these folks talking economic reasoning on this situation. Look, I'm a developer for a DOD contractor. I'm roughly not an idiot. Smartest cat in the room? Nah, there are plenty of folks I look up to that make me look like a toddler playing with his crayons. But in general, I'm not an idiot. Came from a blue collar background, so actual dirty work doesn't scare me. I'm the guy my friends ask for help first to build their decks, house remodeling or just digging up trenches for their sprinklers. My parents, being immigrants, educating myself was my prime purpose for existing.

Lol, you can pursue any career you want, lawyer or doctor. Other first gens know what I'm talking about. I was more of a math and history guy, so neither lawyer or doctor interested me.

Before you apply market theory between classical, Keynesian, supply-side, w/e, get these answered first to fix this issue.

1. Home time. Life isn't about working every day. It's proven by many psychologists and sociologists that general mental health degrades due to over working lifestyles. No one lays on their death bed and says "I wish I worked more." 3, maybe 4 days a month to see your wife and kids. Seriously? To haul clothes or frozen burritos to Laredo so they can go to Mexico... which was the funniest load I've ever done. Military is one thing. There's at least some sense of pride in that and different compensations

Disagree? Don't visit your family or home for 26 days out of every month. When you do visit, set your alarm for every 3 hours (even at night) to simulate logistics telling you to go back to the truck for a load. Let's see how long your girlfriend/wife stays with you. Bet your kids will have a nice relationship with you too after you miss their birthday so you can deliver clothes to some hipster store.

2. Health issues: You are sitting CONSTANTLY. Let's also put the fact that you're bouncing up and down, especially through Cali Hwy 99 and any Louisiana interstate. Do I have to mention how bad sitting for 11+ hours a day is bad for you? Then, all you do is sleep because you're so exhausted. Oh, how's your sleep in a loud truck stop? Sudden door slams. Assholes talking loudly as they walk around. Got a refrigerated trailer? HA! The motor to keep it running is literally 3 feet from your ears!

Disagree? I mean... I can't understand how you can imagine that lifestyle is healthy. No, you don't have a real opportunity to jog. I tried. I was a 2 mile every other day guy prior to truck driving. I got in 2 jogs total, only when I was in Ontario, California. Other truckers know what truck stop I'm talking about.

3. Government: Look, a lot of the regulations in place right now are actually God sends compared to the "good old days" old timers talk about. Because the companies abused the fuck out of drivers. Honestly, thank you Qualcomm for lobbying the fuck out your services. If it wasn't for digital logs, truckers would be forced into more shitty situation. Accidents statistics are low compared to then for very good reasons. But state patrol and weigh stations prey on truck drivers because any normal ticket is instantly double the price because it's a commercial vehicle. They make more money off truck drivers.

Disagree? Look at the 20s-40s. Truck flipped over and the driver is dead because he was forced to do a 30 hour trip in 20 hours? Does the truck still work? Yea? Cool. Put it back on its wheels, get a new guy. Companies taking advantage of employees and skirting the law is NOTHING NEW.

4. Terrain: Dude, the east coast is not really setup for 13 foot trailers. There are so many under 13 foot overpasses that you are in constant fear the moment you go off the interstate. The route planning is on the driving and a majority of intel you can get on that kind of info sucks. There's the garmin gps for truckers that's pretty good, but I ran into one mistake it had in NJ that I barely avoided. That would have been a Youtube "Dumb trucker driver" video. But again, constant exhaustion and bad information.

Disagree? Just drive around where you live (mostly east of the Mississippi river) and notice all the signs that are under 13'5". Need to get to your super markets and malls some how. Most of the straight forward routes are... well... wrong.

5. Companies: Unless you have money to buy your own truck and trailer, you're working for someone else. And if you have the money, you probably won't be the one driving because it's a shitty job and it's better to pay someone else peanuts to do it. To be fair to all of them, business is business. But it's still predatory. A majority of the people in truck driving can't get out once in. I'm lucky. I know that. Most of the guys didn't have parents that forced them to become educated. And the companies know this. Honestly, this is the industry that needs one of the old school unions the most. They make sure you are never near home, they keep your miles minimal to make sure you're dependent on sucking on their tit... it's a one sided situation.

Disagree? You know what. You do it. No one is stopping you. Do it. The bar to qualify is not high, at all. The pool of folks isn't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed. You go signup for this great job of truck driving you think it is and do it for 6 months. Then we'll talk. No? You have a better paying job? One that's maybe fulfilling to your soul? You like seeing your family? See your kid's sports games? School projects? Maybe see their birthdays? Have dinner with your wife? You like your bed that's not made out of Styrofoam? You don't like smelling collective aged trucker piss at truck stops because instead of walking into the station, you just piss between the tractor and trailer?

Yea, talk is cheap. I love the one article from a few months back about there aren't enough women doing truck driving. Hmm... maybe they're not stupid. Think of that? What woman is dumb enough to "enjoy" all of that? Guys are known for doing dumb shit. Let's be realistic. And I've done really dumb shit in my life. Especially when trying to impress a girl.

I think that's a good start. Do you see how these are human problems? Not math problems. And I'm a math guy. I'm comfortable in code and numbers. But I'm well versed in history to understand when an equation doesn't apply. Get some of that crap figured out, then you can argue about market forces and other silver spoon conversations.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#199
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our economy has split into areas where in some areas "talent" can get almost infinite amounts of money and in other areas it's simply not conceivable to pay people more. I wonder how free market people explain this. Based on the market theories I have heard it doesn't make sense.

Free market people understand these things pretty easily. I do not see why you are finding it hard. One obvious fallacy in your statement is that someone getting paid infinite money for talent. I have not seen any such examples so far beside Pentagon who get paid more and more irrespective of their incompetence.

Software development.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a startup opportunity, take food from local restaurants and rendezvous it in bulk at truck stops.

You'd better research how many truckers would be able to afford it first.

Thank you.

Got to love folks who think a "startup" can save the world when they have no clue how the real world works. They totally missed the fact that truckers earn peanuts. So add more cost on top of a meal they can't really afford to begin with? Maybe an iPhone app can help truckers? Totally save the poor with iPhone apps. That's an idea...lol.

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