America has a truck driver shortage • Hacker News Board

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#21

Post by merpnderp » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:15 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

yasp wrote: post #2

I am so sick of this perpetual fallacy about labor shortages. If you can't find enough workers it means you need to raise the price you're offering. (But yasp the article cited one particular firm has already increased prices 15% this year.) Doesn't matter. There is a certain price at which the market will clear. If the market isn't clearing it's because the price being offered is too low. Keep trying.

Our economy has split into areas where in some areas "talent" can get almost infinite amounts of money and in other areas it's simply not conceivable to pay people more. I wonder how free market people explain this. Based on the market theories I have heard it doesn't make sense.

The US and most of the world's free market countries are actually highly regulated markets where supply and demand are strongly influenced by government influence.

As for this particular case, truck driving is a crappy job, with its long term prospects darkened by self driving technology, and equal paying professional jobs in decent supply. If you're motivated enough to be a professional, you can usually find a better career. And there's a fairly hard cap on how much long haul trucker drivers can be paid before rail becomes more economic.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#22

Post by scarface74 » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:15 PM UTC

yasp wrote: post #2

I am so sick of this perpetual fallacy about labor shortages. If you can't find enough workers it means you need to raise the price you're offering. (But yasp the article cited one particular firm has already increased prices 15% this year.) Doesn't matter. There is a certain price at which the market will clear. If the market isn't clearing it's because the price being offered is too low. Keep trying.

That doesn't always work as is the case for farm work once you make immigration harder. How many Americans if given a choice would rather make $40K a year doing nice and comfortable office work than make $120K a year (yes I'm making up a number to make a point) to do back breaking manual labor in the hot sun?

Not quite to that extreme, but I'm giving up money now by choosing not to go into management and stay a senior developer because I don't want to be a manager and not to get a better paying job as a consultant who would have to travel more and be away from my family. My wife took a pay cut when we got married to work at a job she enjoys.

Some jobs are not worth the extra money to a number of people no matter how much money you throw at them.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#23

Post by lev99 » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:15 PM UTC

dkasper wrote: post #12

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our economy has split into areas where in some areas "talent" can get almost infinite amounts of money and in other areas it's simply not conceivable to pay people more. I wonder how free market people explain this. Based on the market theories I have heard it doesn't make sense.

As you pay truckers more at some point it doesn’t make economic sense to hire them. Some jobs are cost centers others are profit centers is one way of looking at it. Another factor is industries like trucking have very little differentiation so it’s a race to the bottom.

As you increase driver pay delivery costs increase. If the shortage was real it would mean deliveries are not being made that would have happened at an increase in delivery cost.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#24

Post by paulie_a » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:15 PM UTC

Truck driver's are basically consultants. They generally have to cover the costs. So 100k has a lot of expenses attached to it. Plus long hours and time away from friends and family. And long boring drives in the middle of Nebraska. I don't think I would want to do that for 45-65k take home pay.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#25

Post by dragontamer » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:15 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #9

Becoming a truck driver currently doesn't seem a wise choice when self-driving trucks are on the horizon.

First, I disagree with that opinion politically. But that's not the main issue I have with the mindset.

There are a HUGE number of business opportunities in the "short-term" 5 to 10 year market. About 15 years ago, when 3d-printing was "about to take off", I know of some entrepreneurs who started a 3d-printer / 3d-CNC Mill sharing service.

It was an old-school service. Telephone based, door-to-door, handshakes kinda deal. They knew it was a temporary job. This was a door-to-door business in the age of the internet. Furthermore, 3d printers were about to become mainstream and in everybody's houses.

Well, it looks like they were wrong. And their business model matured for the last 15 years and grew instead. Turns out that the 3d printers at Universities and bigger labratories sit idle most of the time... and even today, there's no consumer-grade 3d printer you can buy that gives you the quality or speed of the ones at public universities.

Indeed, there are probably more business models out there that are based on "temporary" work than are based on forward-looking models. If there's a need today, that need will likely remain for decades to come, even as technology improves.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#26

Post by StudentStuff » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #10

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our economy has split into areas where in some areas "talent" can get almost infinite amounts of money and in other areas it's simply not conceivable to pay people more. I wonder how free market people explain this. Based on the market theories I have heard it doesn't make sense.

It does make sense, you don’t need “infinite” amount of money. Pay a driver $200k a year. Or give them an 8 hour workday, and week off week on schedules so they can see their family. There’s many solutions, all of them involve incentivizing people to become drivers. If people want their Amazon orders so bad, they’ll end up paying. And if they don’t, then they have to re-prioritize what they want.

Part of the problem is with BNSF, UP & the other major long haul rail lines, there is no good aggregator for those looking to ship a few pallets of goods from California to Seattle, and the railroad is happy to set high minimums which make long distance trucking viable. Its ultimately quite silly, I really do think an Uber for Railroad shipping which partnered with the local railroads (that are desperate for revenue & work for cheap) and long haul railroads could effectively shrink the need for long haul trucking.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#27

Post by _8j50 » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

They track your every move with a gps and you never have time to take it easy between runs. Traveling,the one upside to the job aside from money is ruined by their control-freak managent.

You want people to be truck drivers? Get the trucks good internet access,provide laptops and tablets where possible and give the drivers time to take it easy between and during runs. Internet access wherever you are means you can maintain some social life and video call with the family.

On the flip side,trucking isn't just a job,it's a lifestyle. You never leave work since your truck with the hidden Mics and location tracking is also your home. The compensation just isn't worth the job for most people. Better pay helps but so does hiring convicts and relaxing the driving history restrictions (like running a stop sign 4 years ago shouldn't make you unhirable)

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#28

Post by Apocryphon » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

inglor wrote: post #18

adrianN wrote: post #9

Becoming a truck driver currently doesn't seem a wise choice when self-driving trucks are on the horizon.

This, not a single word about automation and self-driving trucks in the article but every person I talked to that considered this career path* has mentioned automation as a reason staying out of a field. A lot of people value job security really high. I agree with the comments saying that if the pay was higher then there wouldn't be such a shortage and the fact that is generally true. That doesn't mean the market alw…

On the bright side, I guess self-deselection will reduce the amount of job displacement caused by automation if people preemptively choose to not be truck drivers or to leave the field.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#29

Post by yasp » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:17 PM UTC

Karishma1234 wrote: post #20

yasp wrote: post #2

I am so sick of this perpetual fallacy about labor shortages. If you can't find enough workers it means you need to raise the price you're offering. (But yasp the article cited one particular firm has already increased prices 15% this year.) Doesn't matter. There is a certain price at which the market will clear. If the market isn't clearing it's because the price being offered is too low. Keep trying.

By your logic entire concept of labour shortage is outrageous because any shortage will clear with high enough price. But for any job such as that of Truck drive the market value of that job is only X. Paying more than X would mean you should look for alternatives and get out of that business. As the truck diver salaries go up cost of everything that relies on transportation also goes up marginally. Suddenly the stru…

Yes. This is how a well functioning economy works.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#30

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 28, 2018, 7:17 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

yasp wrote: post #2

I am so sick of this perpetual fallacy about labor shortages. If you can't find enough workers it means you need to raise the price you're offering. (But yasp the article cited one particular firm has already increased prices 15% this year.) Doesn't matter. There is a certain price at which the market will clear. If the market isn't clearing it's because the price being offered is too low. Keep trying.

Our economy has split into areas where in some areas "talent" can get almost infinite amounts of money and in other areas it's simply not conceivable to pay people more. I wonder how free market people explain this. Based on the market theories I have heard it doesn't make sense.

[deleted]