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Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#41
post #38
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana isn't generally considered a psychedelic.

marijuana is definitely a psychedelic. eat a few grams of hash and tell me it's not.

It isn't listed here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug

That's what I mean by its not generally considered a psychedelic. I am aware some people class it as one.

Personally I have never experienced psychedelic effects from it.

Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#42
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the hypothesis was true, we would expect the effects of brain damage to reliably create a richer and more psychedelic experience for the sufferer. Hallucinations and paranoia are only a tiny subset of the effects experienced by people on psychedelics, so logically the only part of the hypothesis that becomes more probable is that the brain usually filters out hallucinations and paranoia. But I won't accept that ei…

Note I'm not claiming the filtration theory is true or false - I also have doubts about it - I'm just saying your rejection of it based on 'we don't see such effects because of brain damage ergo the theory doesn't hold' isn't exactly sound. Actually I'm not sure you can use brain damage to prove anything here. It's also too general of a term for me. As far as I'm concerned a serious head trauma where part of the brai…

I'm not saying that filtration theory is false, I'm saying it seems less likely to me than the following alternative: The chemical composition of a sober persons brain causes us to have the usual experience, but taking a substance like psilocybin alters the chemical balance and therefore makes us have unusual experiences. It seems like I have to suppose more assumptions under filtration theory, and that those new assumptions are unfounded and that the consequences of accepting filtration theory leads to predictions that aren't true (vis a vis brain damage).

Which brings us to why I tried to make the point about brain damage. Since we are working with the idea that psychedelic experience is the default but that the brain is filtering out most of it, it seems to follow that strategically damaging the filter should allow psychedelic experiences to flow through. You're right, not all brain damage is the same, but enough people suffer similar brain damage that I believe we ought to have seen by now some subset of patients with certain types of trauma reliably report psychedelic experiences as part of their symptoms. If such a subset exists, then I stand corrected.

Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#43
post #12
post #10

It seems like the filtration theory still produced by far the most significant impact to our current understanding of psychedelic effects. What I was surprised to learn was most research in this domain clearly distinguish adult and non-adult, and the filtration theory implies that kids or younger adults are more creative, have more imaginary freedom, and less emotionally stable - meaning they're naturally more "on dr…

Also may explain why they can be damaging to younger people. Like disturbing plants before their root system (filtration system) takes root tends to kill or damage the plants entire lifespan.

That is a really, really poor and flawed metaphor. It is completely arbitrary and there's no logic or reasoning behind it.

The "filtration system" that is talked about here is not comparable to a root system, or, in other words, any life-sustaining or life-promoting system.

Rather, a malignantly overgrown filtration system is the root cause of feelings of disconnectedness, deprivation, and subsequent depression, that are so common nowadays.

A societal tendency to bulk up the "filtration system" to pathological dimensions is the reason why there is an opioid epidemic in North America right now. Thanks to our massive filtration systems we have filtered out most that is good about the human race, and have managed to build a civilization/economic system that is so dehumanized, cutthroat, unfair, lifeless and ultimately unfulfilling and meaningless, that most of us subjects walk around in a daze, in states of deep emotional deprivation, just looking for something, anything, to either anesthetize those painful feelings (opioids and other downers), or distract us from them (social media, porn, television, VR..."entertainment").

Like everywhere in nature, balance is the key to a healthy state. We have erred, for centuries, on the side of boosting the filtration system through whatever means were available, and have managed to build very effective and tall walls within ourselves that separate us from our fellow men, from the environment, and even from deeper strata of our own consciousness. Now, we are reaping the harvest of that - a mankind that is plagued by mental illness, carrying out environmental destruction wherever you look.

But I digress. What I really wanted to say is - please, don't draw parallels between the "filtration system" and a root system. Really, most of us would benefit from downsizing the filtration system a notch or twenty...unlike plants, where cutting away roots would be of little benefit.

Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#44
post #41
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

marijuana is definitely a psychedelic. eat a few grams of hash and tell me it's not.

It isn't listed here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug That's what I mean by its not generally considered a psychedelic. I am aware some people class it as one. Personally I have never experienced psychedelic effects from it.

it is absolutely generally considered a psychedelic. like I said eat a few grams of hash and tell me it's not. it has been used that way in world religions for thousands of years.

Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#45
post #38
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana isn't generally considered a psychedelic.

marijuana is definitely a psychedelic. eat a few grams of hash and tell me it's not.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted - when eaten, THC is metabolised into 11-OH-THC, which is much more potent that THC. If you eat too much, cannabis has psychedelic effects that are not present when smoking/vaping, and some people compare the 'trippy' effects to those of LSD or mushrooms.

Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#46
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brain trauma is inherently more localized than drugs, so expecting a 1:1 mapping is hardly reasonable. However, fever lack of sleep and other non localized effects can produce a wide range of Hallucinations.

I agree that fever and lack of sleep can produce hallucinations, but I'm not convinced that they are non-localized effects in the brain, nor that psychedelic chemicals are non-localized in the brain.

How do you think the temperature increase from Fever could be localized? It's just a temperature increase and you can induce the same effects by preventing the body from cooling down effectively.

Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#47
post #44
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't listed here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug That's what I mean by its not generally considered a psychedelic. I am aware some people class it as one. Personally I have never experienced psychedelic effects from it.

it is absolutely generally considered a psychedelic. like I said eat a few grams of hash and tell me it's not. it has been used that way in world religions for thousands of years.

But that's like saying "Alcohol is deadly. Drink 10 bottles of whisky and tell me it's not." It's a spurious argument, irrelevant. That's nothing like how the drug is used 99.9999% of the time. Sure, it can be psychedelic, apparently--though I never came across hash that was at all. I've read about people tripping on hash, but never even heard anyone talk about anyone they know having that experience. I guess you know this.

Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#48
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your mother-in-law is a professional artist, then I'd say this is interesting. If not, then she is just a novice like most people, and is having fun discovering the world of art, from the viewpoint that she discontinued it from childhood, when most kids give up drawing because their brains are frustrated with reconciling their drawings with the world around them which has correct perspective. Not that there's anyt…

This comment seems to me to be incredibly condescending and implies that a professional artist (whatever that definition is) cannot have fun making new discoveries for themselves in the world of art. I am sorry that you are only interested in the professional artists on psychedelics; I think looking at its effect on all artists novice or otherwise is interesting.

Well, this comment seems incredibly condescending to me. You're not 'sorry', and I can't see the implication you suggest at all. Please allow people to freely be interested in what they're interested in.

Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#49
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that fever and lack of sleep can produce hallucinations, but I'm not convinced that they are non-localized effects in the brain, nor that psychedelic chemicals are non-localized in the brain.

How do you think the temperature increase from Fever could be localized? It's just a temperature increase and you can induce the same effects by preventing the body from cooling down effectively.

I meant the effects of fever, so that perhaps different parts of the brain was affected differently by the temperature increase. I really have no idea, but I was saying that it is not an obvious fact either way.

Re: Unifying Theories of Psychedelic Drug Effects

#50
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your mother-in-law is a professional artist, then I'd say this is interesting. If not, then she is just a novice like most people, and is having fun discovering the world of art, from the viewpoint that she discontinued it from childhood, when most kids give up drawing because their brains are frustrated with reconciling their drawings with the world around them which has correct perspective. Not that there's anyt…

This comment seems to me to be incredibly condescending and implies that a professional artist (whatever that definition is) cannot have fun making new discoveries for themselves in the world of art. I am sorry that you are only interested in the professional artists on psychedelics; I think looking at its effect on all artists novice or otherwise is interesting.

Yours is not a very charitable reading. I think gp is just pointing out that a lot of people "give up" on art at a young age, so a regression to childish tendencies when it comes to art and psychedelics may not imply such a regression generally. It would be interesting if the subject was a professional artist with many years of training and technique, because then to throw this all away to "do art as a three year old might" is much more indicative of the claim that psychedelics induce child-like behavior, which is the main point of discussion in this thread.
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