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Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

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141–150 of 278 posts

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#141
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily bad policy it's just policy. The local residents are also the ones that generally live with the consequences and externalities of the local power generation industry.

Low-cosumption residents are then forced to live with the externalities of the generation infrastructure as well as the externalities of the behaviour induced by the electricity subsidy while benefiting the least from the subsidy - it seems like a pretty bad policy.

If it’s a public municipal utility, any dividend in lieu of price reductions, should go to the local government, not the individual residents.

The local government could then issue out checks to everyone if they want, but more likely it would go towards general budget and benefit everyone.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#142
post #106

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

This comment applies to any revolutionary technology. Let's substitute cryptocurrencies with "the internet" in 1999: - people trading 'stocks' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off capital and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Detroit at the beginning of…

The difference is that the Internet had clear useful applications at that point and billions of dollars in real business (not just speculation) was happening annually. Yes, there were plenty VC misfires with no plausible path to profitability — my favorite was cement.com, with free shipping! — but there were tons of existing businesses finding significant value from it and new companies like Amazon, eBay, Travelocity, etc. who were making money on each sale. The daytraders were indeed chasing bad deals but anyone who paid attention to basic market fundamentals wasn't buying those stocks[1].

10 years into Bitcoin there's still no reason for someone to buy in other than speculation. It's not competitive as a currency and the current “store of value” pivot is undercut by the lack of fundamentals. One particular reason why that comparison doesn't work is that if you had, say, bought AMZN in 1997 even if the stock didn't do great you owned part of a profitable book seller which could carry on just fine even if it never saw rapid growth. Bitcoin doesn't have any value other than its current popularity so there's no floor on the losses if people switch to something else.

1. I actually sat in on some calls with Pets.com around the time one of our clients was thinking about buying them and it was quickly evident that they had no strategy beyond cashing out at the IPO.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#143
post #38

Subsidising energy prices for local consumers based on export revenues is widely practiced but is bad policy. The utilities should charge market rates for consumption and cut local rate-payers a cheque annually using a scheme that encourages energy saving practices.

Why shouldn't people who live in an area receive a dividend from the resource wealth of that area? Property owners in cities receive similar dividends all the time, in the form of rising property prices.

The local government should decide this, and they will almost always keep this dividend for their general fund.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#144
post #72
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you consume more power than what the electrical company can supply your main breaker will trip. Unless those people are bypassing breakers I don’t see what’s the big deal. If the electrical company tells you that you can draw 20A and gives you a 20A breaker then you should be allowed to use it.

That's not even remotely accurate. Power companies oversubscribe just like everyone else. That's why they give you a discount for hooking up a device on your air conditioner they can remotely control during peak times to even out power usage. Also why you hear of rolling outages during extremely hot summer weather when everyone has their ac on at the same time. That's why they have a different service for business us…

Then maybe they shouldn’t be oversubscribing, or finally upgrade the infrastructure now that they milked out enough money from the oversubscription and the energy consumption is finally catching up.

Another solution is to make a proper “burstable” tariff with the corresponding meter that would give you a baseline current allowance plus a peak current allowance for X seconds.

As it stands however they are selling packages promising X amps and are pissed off because someone is actually using X amps. Well they definitely don’t earn any sympathy from me - this kind of behaviour reeks of scum.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#145
post #106

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

This comment applies to any revolutionary technology. Let's substitute cryptocurrencies with "the internet" in 1999: - people trading 'stocks' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off capital and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Detroit at the beginning of…

Pointing out that other revolutionary tech looked stupid to some people at first doesn't mean that things that look stupid are going to be revolutionary.

You could just as easily point out that investing in beanie babies looked stupid, or any of a number of other totally failed ideas seemed stupid.

Most things fail. Your comparison adds no meaningful information and is attempting to mislead based on fallacious reasoning.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#146
post #134

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

People trade stocks like they do Pokemon but we call them 'shares'. Does that make it less like Pokemon than calling them 'coins'? Also, you trade coins all the time. It's called coins. Fiat coins.

Yes, it does make it less like coins, because lying about the assets backing a share's value is a quick way to end up in low sec Federal prison for 5 to 20 years.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#147
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is a really bad line of logic. There are lots of things that have been around for a long time and make some people plenty of money that are bad things. Pyramid schemes fit your definition - should I start buying in? The opposite way to pose this is: Cryptocurrencies have been around for 9+ years, and there has been literally 0 use for it apart from conning rubes on the internet. The important thing to as…

>Cryptocurrencies have been around for 9+ years, and there has been literally 0 use for it apart from conning rubes on the internet. That's weird, I've been using it to buy stuff off amazon and aliexpress. Am I a conned rube? Does that mean Visa is conning rubes as well?

> That's weird, I've been using it to buy stuff off amazon and aliexpress.

How? Neither company seems to accept Bitcoin directly.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#148

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

What makes an investment in 'this Bitcoin crap' any different from an investment in say Facebook shares or Snap shares? Aren't they just unnecessary digital crap too that nobody actually needs? Bitcoin has become the gold standard for crypto and many people invest on the basis that there'll be huge growth in the area of blockchain technology and tokenised digital assets in the years to come. If Bitcoin remains the go…

>What makes an investment in 'this Bitcoin crap' any different from an investment in say Facebook shares or Snap shares? Aren't they just unnecessary digital crap too that nobody actually needs?

There's a fundamental difference between buying shares of a publicly traded company on a regulated exchange and investing in bitcoin. This is quite literally comparing apples and oranges - your examples are not only different in kind, but in purpose. Also, there is a large, rather well funded government institution who aggressively works to make sure the stock market isn't subject to the sorts of abject manipulation, ponzi schemes, and other such unsavoriness that Bitcoin has been subject to. (Side note - watching the Bitcoin market is like watching the last 150 years of finance happen in 2-3 years. It's an interesting object lesson in market manipulation and why the SEC maybe isn't a bad thing).

As to Facebook/Snap being digital crap no one needs - yes. However, just because there's no physical good being created doesn't mean their value is entirely ephemeral/a financial illusion. Facebook/Snap create value by solving a problem people are willing to spend money to solve. Bitcoin creates value by...well it doesn't yet. People invest because they hope that "there'll be huge growth in the area of blockchain technology and tokenised digital assets in the years to come." That's a nice thought, but it's an assumption.

>If Bitcoin remains the gold standard for crypto then it's value will rise accordingly.

It's funny that you mention the gold standard, a standard that was dropped because of its votility, the fact that it was subject to manipulation, and the fact that it benefited some segments of the market FAR more than other.

>...many people invest on the basis that there'll be huge growth in the area of blockchain technology and tokenised digital assets in the years to come.

I think this is undeniably true. However, I think the assumption that bitcoin will be the vehicle for this growth is incorrect, or more charitably, overly optimistic. Bitcoin has accrued a lot of non-technical overhead that I think will prevent it from being used to drive these solutions - things like its association with speculation, the fact that the majority of miners are on the Chinese mainland, etc. I think the growth in blockchain technology will come from companies and individuals taking the concepts of the blockchain and using them to build products with real value (as in, they solve a problem that someone is willing to pay money to have solved). Bitcoin's value (sadly) doesn't come from the technology, which is fascinating and interesting - it comes from the fact that it's created an unregulated market with no barriers to access, which has allowed rampant speculation, incessant hype about 'the technology of the future', and a continual influx of new money to create 'value' that ultimately, has no real value.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#149
post #73
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only purpose of a breaker is to prevent current from heating up wires beyond a safe level. They don't indicate anything about power capacity for a given neighborhood.

Yes they did: > In one instance last year, the transformer outside a bootleg miner’s home overheated and touched off a grass fire, Chelan County PUD officials say.

In which case the utility is the one at fault for not properly calculating the capacity of their grid.

If a transformer is rated to supply 1000A then you should not under any circumstances allow more to be drawn from it.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize it's easy to speak in a derogatory manner about something we don't like and hope it will go away, but I think that ignores the reality: for now, and for several years, a lot of people have made a lot of money. It may be an opportunity, or it may be a problem that needs addressing, but after 9+ years, I think there comes a point where it's no longer a sinkhole.

A lot of money? As in actual, hard currency? Color me skeptical.

>A lot of money? As in actual, hard currency?

Yes. Definitely.

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