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Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

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Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#61

Post by bitL »

damagednoob wrote: post #11

> Did you know that teens are having substantially less sex than the previous few generations? It’s true! And generally interpreted as a good thing. But Ronson suggests that this is in large part because porn is replacing sex, and, in fact, making real sex with real woman seem alienating and difficult. Further down the author specifically mentions the correlation/causality fallacy but there are surely other explanati…

> making real sex with real woman seem alienating and difficult

I think the proper word is: boring

Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#62

Post by dragonwriter »

jhardy54 wrote: post #49
hh3k0 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are referring to Jordan Peterson. He said something along those lines in a recent interview. I haven't read the interview, though, so I don't know the context.

Jordan Peterson is a blowhard conservative who's had more success wooing impressionable edgy teenagers than any actual academic pursuits. I don't understand how anyone takes him or his ideas seriously.

Most of the people I've seen praising and recommending him have pointed mainly to videos on YouTube; video is, in communicating ideas, very poor for informing and very powerful for emotional engagement. This isn't widely recognized (it's not something AFAICT well covered in regular education on source evaluation, critical thinking, etc.), which was mildly bad when TV news was becoming dominant, but there was still a pretty strong production and distribution barrier. In the age where every crank with a crackpot idea can, at basically no marginal upfront cost, produce videos and distribute them globally, it's one of the most important things to understand in approaching media.

Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#63

Post by mjfl »

wavefunction wrote: post #37
PKop wrote: post #5

Here's an enlightening video on the detrimental effects of porn on the brain. Porn addiction shows similar effects as opiates. https://youtu.be/wSF82AwSDiU Related: "NoFap" https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/

NoFap is of course the pseudo-scientific movement promoted by "Proud Boy" Gavin McInnes. When I consider the constellation of associated movements and groups with these sorts of things I have to step back and say "no." You have to be careful about what people you associate yourself with and also with the subcultures and thought-forms you submerge yourself in.

I'm not involved in it, but I know for a fact that the "NoFap" movement goes back like 8 or 9 years, and probably further back, and the Proud Boys have only recently come about, maybe in the last two years. In fact, I'm pretty sure the only association between the two groups is via endorsement by McInnes. I just want to clear that up in case someone's at a party and touting NoFap and an insane person like yourself concludes that they must be a Nazi.

You should be more careful about that.

Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#64

Post by sanderjd »

redka wrote: post #32
erric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>”enforced monogamy” from e.g. blowhard academics Are academics advocating wholesale monogamy? That’s usually the field of organized religion.

Jordan Peterson, whose being referenced here explained what he meant[0] and it doesn't seem unreasonable. It's uncharitable to jump to a conclusion here without going beyond our presuppositions. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn60-8Ql_44

Is there a transcript or other textual artifact of his explanation for what he meant? I'm pretty tired of slogging through these tedious videos of these people pontificating at us while talking to each other.

Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#65

Post by digi_owl »

frenchpress123 wrote: post #48

For posterity, here is Jordan Peterson responding to the numerous articles that misinterpretation his usage of the phrase "enforced monogamy": https://jordanbpeterson.com/media/on-the-new-york-times-and-...

So it is yet another example of "context insensitivity" from readers/critiques...

Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#66

Post by superkuh »

eilyra wrote: post #46
_b8r0 wrote: post #18

From the site here in GDPR-land: "Select 'OK' to continue using our products, otherwise, you will not be able to access our sites and apps." Looks like I'm not reading this then.

Wait, weren't dialogues that force you to give consent for non core parts of the experience forbidden under the GDPR? As in, you can't force people to consent by witholding service if they don't?

Yeah, and it's by far the worst part of the GDPR. It's based on the implicit premise that you don't own your company and can be compelled to provide services to random people by the government at the point of a gun.

Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#67

Post by jrs95 »

damagednoob wrote: post #11

> Did you know that teens are having substantially less sex than the previous few generations? It’s true! And generally interpreted as a good thing. But Ronson suggests that this is in large part because porn is replacing sex, and, in fact, making real sex with real woman seem alienating and difficult. Further down the author specifically mentions the correlation/causality fallacy but there are surely other explanati…

There’s a lot of focus on how this relates to the happiness of men, but generally speaking hookups and pets aren’t an emotionally fulfilling alternative to a family for women, either. This is a worrying trend for everyone. Maybe a minority will be happier, but most are going to be lonelier and most likely more mentally ill. I suppose with legalization of marijuana we might not see a steady increase in alcoholism, but a quarter of the population being perpetually stoned probably isn’t really a good thing for society either. Oh well. Let’s just give them a UBI check and pretend everything is fine.

Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#68

Post by ovao »

ozim wrote: post #55
ovao wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is fine in moderation. Mainlining sulfuric acid, for example. Whether porn consumption is fine in moderation is a subject of fair debate. Unfortunately, the science on this is not sufficiently clear.

I am not following that absurdity reduction. In the context of discussion you could compare it with alcohol not sulfuric acid. Alcohol creates concrete bad outcomes when for instance driving. I think there is a lot less people watching porn while driving than driving under influence. Alcohol makes you prone to some kinds of cancers, porn not much. Watching porn is at least order of magnitude safer than drinking alcoh…

I think your reaction to the first statement is an indication that you didn’t read the second. I specifically argue that there is no clear scientific indication relating to moderate porn consumption, whereas there are clear indications about injecting sulfuric acid.

The point being: it’s unclear as to whether porn consumption is harmful in moderation and therefore problematic to suggest that it’s “fine”.

Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#69

Post by kindasadgenZ »

Throwaway for obvious reasons.

I'm a "gen Z" (born in the late 90s) and discovered porn early. I think it messed up my priors about sex because when I lost my virginity (I was 15/16) it was disappointing. Had a half-dozen partners since then, and it only got worse. I was always doing my best so that the girl had a good time but was extremely bored. Then I started watching porn a lot more and became further disinterested by sex. My life at University got rough, lost friends, anyway at this point I think I got addicted. I was masturbating 8/9 times a day to the point of my genitals hurting. I got ADHD meds which also helped fuck up my reward system.

Then I realized I had ED. Told my physician and she gave me the "blue pills". Now I always have one in my wallet. I can't do anything without. I never have orgasms with girls. I just pretend to have a good time, try hard to please, and get on with it. I'm 100% certain that my ED is caused by some damage I did on myself when masturbating compulsively.

Worst thing is that I can't talk about it to anyone. It's just so ridiculous and I'm pretty sure it's only downhill from there. I fucked up. I'm in my early twenties and rekt. It blows and honestly makes me sad. I'm not even sure if I'll be able to ever have kids.

To the people with kids here: please protect them, seriously, I had too much freedom way too early... my parents were busy and they meant well but I wouldn't wish what I'm living on anyone. There is so much potential for harm out there

Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect

#70

Post by rayiner »

These phenomena aren’t limited to porn. Content industries have several players competing for limited revenues. Customers don’t care who gets what, they’re willing to pay a certain amount for the content (even if that amount is in the form of advertising). The chief battle is between distributors and content producers. When copyright breaks down, as it has in porn, distributors get all the leverage and all the profits.

Accordingly, distributors have huge incentives to push for weakening of copyright. The lobbying of middle-man companies like Google, etc., against copyright can be viewed through that lens. Distribution channels like YouTube, etc., are a lot more valuable when they can distribute other peoples’ content for free.

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