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EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

juliareda.eu

161–170 of 223 posts

Re: EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

#161
post #53
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no karma level that allows users to downvote articles according to the unofficial hackernews faq. It’s possible that the admins downweight the articles because politics in general is frowned upon? I don’t think you really have much proof on pro-EU state sponsored sock puppets... but a more detailed analysis would be interesting!

I am talking about comments. Of course I can be wrong about this situation since it's basically gut feeling and perceptions. Still, aside from the votes, there have been some really weird comments in this thread too, something that just doesn't feel it can align with how a programmer or entreprenur would express himself. Sorry if I'm sharing my emotions.

You're underestimating the range of opinion in this community and breaking the site guidelines by insinuating that it's astroturfing instead of people posting in good faith. We don't allow such insinuation here because it's the fastest way for an internet discussion to poison itself. You're not the only one doing it—this poison has unfortunately been all over the place lately with the spats about GDPR.

All: please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, assume good faith, and keep these off-topic insinuations far away from HN in the future.

Re: EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

#162
post #141
post #12

I had not realized that this insane bit with an inalienable right to monetary remuneration had made it to the drafts. We already know from the past cases that if given the choices between paying for the privilege of linking vs. not linking at all, search engines and social networks will do the latter. The economic value of e.g. news searches must be miniscule. But maybe there is a little bit of value there, even if n…

>Unless they're a top 2 media conglomerate of an European country, and would like for all their weaker competitors to be killed off. You'll be accused to be a conspiracy theorist. Is that legal in the EU still?

You mean is it legal to "think this is a good idea"?

Re: EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

#164
post #4

GDPR and the proposed copyright laws will break the internet irrecoverably. The start-up industry will be a long forgotten dream. These old b@$%%%s will turn the internet into cable television. Scumbags would want to go back to a world of slavery, colonisation and wealth locked up as gold in personal treasuries. I hope all the other countries follow suit and then the only thing we will be able to aim for is a job in…

Scumbags would want to go back to a world of slavery, colonisation and wealth locked up as gold in personal treasuries.

That's some kind of weird hyperbole that doesn't make much sense.

I hope all the other countries follow suit and then the only thing we will be able to aim for is a job in these government bodies or the few surviving monopolies.

The rest of the world will ignore the EU, while the EU continues to dig its own grave.

Re: EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

#165
post #143
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a greatly oversimplified view of things. Regulations are tools. They’re not inherently good or bad. It depends on how you use them. If the bad regulations outweigh the good, the solution isn’t to give up on regulation, it’s to cut the bad ones. It doesn’t make sense to lump together regulations on the acceptable amount of lead in drinking water, regulations on operations of a commercial airline, and r…

and who regulates the regulators?

Congress.

Re: EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

#166
post #38

This is blatant fear mongering. Furthermore, calling these directives 'link tax laws' is simply a cheap frame. You can link to articles freely. Including a snippet that has 'no independent economic significance' is allowed. Agreed, that is not very precise. But is that really such a big deal? Sure, you might get sued. That's life. You have to trust the reasonableness of the courts. And don't worry, they won't go afte…

Sure, you might get sued. That's life. You have to trust the reasonableness of the courts. And don't worry, they won't go after you.

That line of reasoning is wrong on so many levels it's comical. And unfortunately, we keep on seeing this on the GDPR debate too.

Re: EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

#167
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or business will pass the compliance costs to the consumer, thus raising price for all. Those breaking the law and not complying will have a competitive advantage, as well as those large enough to spread the compliance costs over all their production. And thus the raise of the regulation-loving mega-corporation. Wages are the price of work as established by the free market. Minimum wage in effect eliminates less comp…

Edit: I thought my parent poster was the same as my grandparent's parent. I removed a paragraph aimed at the latter. Sorry! [...] Just because people earn less and have less money, the economic output in goods won't change. Goods will simply become cheaper. What really matters is WHERE the money is removed from the system because companies/individuals supposedly hoard it, pay low wages, or cost of compliance is high.…

> Just because people earn less and have less money, the economic output in goods won't change. Goods will simply become cheaper.

Wait, what? That is obviously not what happens. If 100K people lose their jobs, they have less money which means they buy less stuff. But nobody is going to materially change prices as a result of what 100K people do out of 300M. Those 100K people are just screwed.

> Criminals always had a competitive advantage. It's the job of law enforcement to make sure this doesn't happen - if that doesn't work you have a bigger problem.

Law enforcement is never 100% effective. People paying each other under the table is rampant and most of them never get caught.

Every time you impose more burdens on law abiding citizens, you increase the wages of crime.

> Depends on what the compliance cost is. Need to hire an extra guy to do paper pushing for compliance? This cost (maybe) can be spread. Need to use more expensive materials? Bigger corps won't have more advantages here than they had anyways (buy in bulk etc.)

Both of those benefit larger entities. Suppose you sell a unit for $100 and your previous unit cost was $80 but with the more expensive materials it's $90. Then you need to sell 50,000 units to cover a $500,000 fixed cost instead of 25,000 units. But you only sell 40,000 units, so you're out of business. The larger company sells a million units and has no such problem.

> Maybe they should use robots - if a robot can perform the work for less than what could be considered a livable wage for a human worker, the human worker is best used elsewhere. You just made a good argument that minimum wages could increase economic output.

But that's what would happen regardless if the human worker could find another job that pays more than the one being automated. The issue is that the human worker would prefer $5/hour to unemployment, and the employer would prefer a $5/hour employee to automation but prefer automation to an $8/hour employee, so an $8 minimum wage puts the employee on the unemployment line.

> The dignity of a job that is paid so badly that the government has to indirectly subsidize the industry by giving the worker additional government aid, even though he has a paid job? Another great example that the free market fails at setting fair wages.

Which is more undignified, working a job supplemented by government assistance or being unemployed and 100% reliant on government assistance?

Re: EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

#168
post #11

As public regulators all over the world are busy pushing regulations (what else? that is their sole job after all) maybe it is time to stop and ask: are we losing more than we are gaining? Everything has a price and free markets are the only mechanism for determining that price. But regulations overwrite that price with one determined by politics and lobby and populism. This new price is paid by all no matter if we w…

It's true that there's a cost to compliance, but this handy paper has come out claiming that there's no evidence that regulation reduces industry dynamism: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/02/fe...

(The author is a noted libertarian, so it's good to see him publishing a paper that shows the opposite result to what he'd expect)

Re: EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

#169
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that companies are made of people and an individual is a company of 1. GDPR is pretty much DRM for an individual's personal data.

> Don't forget that companies are made of people This is totally irrelevant, because the governance model of a a company is a limited dictatorship, and not all those people are equal. A company is only the people at its top, the rest are chattel. A company is also not made of people in the legal sense, it is a separate entity.

That is BS. You are talking about businesses as if all you know about them is from Hollywood movies.

I suggest you go ahead and build a company, any company. You may learn how things really work, not the evil caricature you have in your mind. It's not that hard and it’s quite rewarding.

Re: EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line

#170
post #147
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite get this, the problem is not with linking, but the link previews.

It seems pretty clear that the intent is for this to cover the current linking/snippeting practices. If it wasn't covered, there is no chance of this law providing publishers a new revenue stream. And what are those current practices? On Google News it appears to literally be just the title and maybe a tiny thumbnail image. On search it's those plus less than a sentence of text. It's pretty hard to see the intent her…

What about HN, which is a link + title?
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