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Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

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Re: Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

#21

Post by maxyme »

sundvor wrote: post #17
frankohn wrote: post #8

I advice people to not use WSL. It seems to me that this is the first step of their well-known embrace, extend, extinguish microsoft's strategy. They are now embracing the gnu/linux way of working like the packaging tools, the command line with the shells, the easy of having a compiler and developer tools, etc etc. At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistrib…

the updates .. reset without asking many of the configurations you carefully made on your system. Funny you should say that, I am normally quite fond of Win10 but I just installed the April update on my HTPC which uses a 4k TV as monitor. The graphics settings went to hell, making the screen push past the boundaries or "overscanning" them. Reinstalling Nvidia graphics drivers now to hopefully bring things back into o…

This happened to my old gaming PC as well. I looked into it and it mistakenly installed AMD Firepro drivers during the update instead of the correct Radeon drivers... Had to manually install the correct ones

Re: Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

#22

Post by maxyme »

Scarbutt wrote: post #12
frankohn wrote: post #8

I advice people to not use WSL. It seems to me that this is the first step of their well-known embrace, extend, extinguish microsoft's strategy. They are now embracing the gnu/linux way of working like the packaging tools, the command line with the shells, the easy of having a compiler and developer tools, etc etc. At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistrib…

bloated system and the updates are very heavy Really though, they asume everyone has a 100Mbps and a SSD, every new update is like a new install of windows, glad I don't have to use it.

On one of my old computers with a i7 Sandy Bridge but a 7200rpm hard drive the update took 2 hours

Re: Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

#24

Post by hrydgard »

JonasJSchreiber wrote: post #11

I really wish that Docker could natively run in WSL. It's a really aspirational project for Microsoft, but it's not doing anything that Cygwin doesn't at this time.

Cygwin doesn't run Linux binaries. WSL does.

Re: Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

#25

Post by newnewpdro »

willtim wrote: post #15
frankohn wrote: post #8

I advice people to not use WSL. It seems to me that this is the first step of their well-known embrace, extend, extinguish microsoft's strategy. They are now embracing the gnu/linux way of working like the packaging tools, the command line with the shells, the easy of having a compiler and developer tools, etc etc. At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistrib…

How are they extending Linux? It also sounds like you are asking them to, since you want to build Windows apps from WSL! A large part of the attraction of WSL for many, is that native windows ports are not needed. Windows will never extinguish Linux, while it remains closed and proprietary, so I wouldn't worry about that.

They're in the embracing phase.

Linux, the kernel, is actively in the process of losing a majority of its non-server market share and thus related development resources. It will become a very real possibility for Linux to be relatively unusable directly on modern consumer hardware if nothing is done to prevent it.

WSL, if successful, will deter potential desktop Linux users from leaving Windows if they consider WSL as already providing everything Linux has to offer without the trouble of installing an OS.

Fuschia will eliminate all the Android devices once that pivot is fully realized. Presumably ChromeOS is going to follow suit.

One doesn't even need to speculate on how exactly MS will extend to see the very real threats. The Linux kernel's stable ABI contract it turns out is a serious vulnerability for its market share. There are some similarities to how Google embraced Java in Android without Sun/Oracle's participation.

edit:

If you value having the option of running a GPL kernel on modern computers, don't use WSL and discourage others from using it. We need people running Linux on bare metal. It's the only way we will continue to have the option. If nobody is using it, when you decide you want/need it, your hardware isn't going to be supported.

I'm a little surprised that Linus / The Linux Foundation haven't played the Linux trademark card to prevent MS from using the Linux name in the WSL moniker. There is no Linux in WSL, and the deliberately ambiguous marketing is actively harmful to Linux.

Re: Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

#26

Post by sundvor »

maxyme wrote: post #21
sundvor wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the updates .. reset without asking many of the configurations you carefully made on your system. Funny you should say that, I am normally quite fond of Win10 but I just installed the April update on my HTPC which uses a 4k TV as monitor. The graphics settings went to hell, making the screen push past the boundaries or "overscanning" them. Reinstalling Nvidia graphics drivers now to hopefully bring things back into o…

This happened to my old gaming PC as well. I looked into it and it mistakenly installed AMD Firepro drivers during the update instead of the correct Radeon drivers... Had to manually install the correct ones

Ouch. Yep my Nvidia drivers were reset (#); installing latest ones and redoing my config fixed it. This included DPI settings; it's right funny how tiny 100% gets even on 65".

Was easy enough to get back to where it was, but then again I've done this enough times for even myself to remember quickly - it'd be rather annoying for the family if update happened when I was away. (I had already postponed feature updates by about a month).

#) I got a 960 when it had just come out, and it can handle huge (e.g. 70gb/2hrs) 4k h265 videos just fine - if only Netflix saw it that way too, but no - cpu is all that matters, and the i5-2500 is far too old for them.

Re: Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

#27

Post by stinos »

frankohn wrote: post #8

I advice people to not use WSL. It seems to me that this is the first step of their well-known embrace, extend, extinguish microsoft's strategy. They are now embracing the gnu/linux way of working like the packaging tools, the command line with the shells, the easy of having a compiler and developer tools, etc etc. At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistrib…

At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistribute, I guess this is part of their strategy.

I fail to see how that has anything to do with embrace/extend/whatever. Maybe I'm missing something but they simply let you run largely unmodified linux. Which obviously is not windows. And which can already cross-compile for windows seemingly making your point extra moot. Why on earth (and how) should they add another way to create windows applications? I'm really not sure what you want here.

Re: Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

#28

Post by some_account »

frankohn wrote: post #8

I advice people to not use WSL. It seems to me that this is the first step of their well-known embrace, extend, extinguish microsoft's strategy. They are now embracing the gnu/linux way of working like the packaging tools, the command line with the shells, the easy of having a compiler and developer tools, etc etc. At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistrib…

I absolutely agree, after seeing Microsoft to exactly the same in the 90s. Hopefully the new generation learns from past mistakes, but probably they won't.

Re: Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

#29

Post by some_account »

stinos wrote: post #27
frankohn wrote: post #8

I advice people to not use WSL. It seems to me that this is the first step of their well-known embrace, extend, extinguish microsoft's strategy. They are now embracing the gnu/linux way of working like the packaging tools, the command line with the shells, the easy of having a compiler and developer tools, etc etc. At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistrib…

At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistribute, I guess this is part of their strategy. I fail to see how that has anything to do with embrace/extend/whatever. Maybe I'm missing something but they simply let you run largely unmodified linux. Which obviously is not windows. And which can already cross-compile for windows seemingly making your point extra moot…

By letting users run Linux, they are moving people away from the Linux distributions and into the windows ecosystem. This the embrace step, so they later can watch Linux distribution usage decline to nothing. That leaves Windows as the professional choice for Linux.

Anything that moves users from Linux distributions to Windows is very bad for free software, since it's already a small market.

Re: Command Line and Windows Subsystem for Linux – The Windows 10 April Update

#30

Post by ta848347 »

frankohn wrote: post #8

I advice people to not use WSL. It seems to me that this is the first step of their well-known embrace, extend, extinguish microsoft's strategy. They are now embracing the gnu/linux way of working like the packaging tools, the command line with the shells, the easy of having a compiler and developer tools, etc etc. At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistrib…

> They are now embracing the gnu/linux way of working like the packaging tools, the command line with the shells, the easy of having a compiler and developer tools, etc etc

This is ridiculous. Damned if you have a CLI, damned if you don't. Further more, if Microsoft where to extend it, wouldn't it need to contribute back to the community? Isn't Microsoft one of the leading if not biggest contributors to opensource on Github?

You'll need further evidence to support this claim.

> At the same time they don't let you create from WSL standard Windows application that you can redistribute, I guess this is part of their strategy

I don't understand - WSL is the linux Kernel compatibility. What this has to do with cross compiling Windows applications is beyond me. Additionally - IIRC .NET core can be compiled from Linux.

> In addition Windows 10 is such a messy, bloated system and the updates are very heavy and have often problems and they reset without asking many of the configurations you carefully made on your system

I'm not sure that an operating system that is backwards compatible with software over 25 years ago exists that isn't a bit "messy" or "bloated". Linux has it's own share of warts. It's worth noting that Linux is my primary operating system.

> I advice people that want to use Windows to use MSYS2 instead

I advise people to use the best tool for the job, whether that is WSL or MSYS2 depends on the application and the use cases.

Based on your post history - you seem to have an outstanding grudge with WSL. I don't think you're being impartial.

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