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Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

latimes.com

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Re: Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

#31

Post by mikeash »

marcell wrote: post #10

The cost argument is always interesting to me, when you consider it in context. We (in America) recently passed a tax cut that will cost around $150B/year for the next 10 years, and likely more if the temporary parts are made permanent. Even with cost overruns, that's almost enough to pay for 2 California bullet trains PER YEAR for the next decade. And yes, I know California is just 1 state out of 50, but even still,…

Waste shouldn’t be used to justify waste. The cost is outrageous for what you get. The tax cut doesn’t change that at all.

Re: Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

#32

Post by rayiner »

marcell wrote: post #10

The cost argument is always interesting to me, when you consider it in context. We (in America) recently passed a tax cut that will cost around $150B/year for the next 10 years, and likely more if the temporary parts are made permanent. Even with cost overruns, that's almost enough to pay for 2 California bullet trains PER YEAR for the next decade. And yes, I know California is just 1 state out of 50, but even still,…

The tax cut is at least money back in peoples’ pockets. This is a huge subsidy that’ll benefit a tiny fraction of people who need to routinely travel between LA and SF, and can afford to spend $86 doing so (probably over $100 when it finally opens, its gone up a lot already).

Re: Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

#33

Post by ohazi »

rayiner wrote: post #26

This is the upper middle class robbing poor people. The projected fare would be $86 per ticket, about triple the cost of driving for a family of four. The people who are going to pay that are upper middle class travelers and business travelers. Which would be fine if the project was paying for itself, but it won’t be. It’ll be state subsidies for high income professionals. That money could be doing so much good (scho…

At that price I'll continue to fly Southwest. As currently designed, nobody is going to use this thing.

Re: Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

#34

Post by mistrial9 »

many hidden assumptions and divisions here.. - Bay Area / Sacramento area voters versus LA versus who - the traffic and pollution of cars fits many individuals just fine, and the ability to think and act in larger groups is rarer than one might think - every govt project has cost problems, why is this different

Trains with modern power sources seem like a really good idea; the rest is project management.

Re: Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

#35

Post by zcbenz »

From Wikipedia:

"In July 2014 The World Bank reported that the per kilometer cost of California's high-speed rail system was $56 million, more than double the average cost of $17–21 million per km of high speed rail in China and more than the $25–39 million per km average for similar projects in Europe."

"As of May 2015, both construction packages awarded have come in significantly under staff estimates."

"In December 2016, an internal-use-only draft risk assessment produced by the Federal Railroad Administration was delivered to the California Rail Authority which warned that the ICS (Merced-Bakersfield) segment could cost as much as $9.5 billion instead of the $6.4 billion originally budgeted"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail

Re: Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

#36

Post by johnbatch »

Link to the Methodology and Survey: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g5uibGxcEuknURkZZvT4Ah4Q9-I...

Question 26 is the headline.

Question 25 is In general, do you [oppose] or [support] California’s project to build a high-speed rail system connecting Los Angeles, the Central Valley, and San Francisco?

Strongly/somewhat Support =49 Strongly/somewhat Oppose = 43

Cross Tabs break these question down by race, education, political party, age, region, etc: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p1sIIQSUED6MwcGxVYcImDAsn7e...

Re: Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

#37

Post by badminton1 »

jboles wrote: post #11

Killing it would be short-sighted. If it gets killed, there would probably never be the opportunity to build it ever again. California is flush with tech money, put some of it to good use.

A lot of the money in tech is as liquid as Monopoly currency.

Re: Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

#38

Post by Gargoyle »

AFNobody wrote: post #19
AndrewBissell wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it was quite nefarious of them to alter the laws of physics and geology to make tunneling through the mountains outside LA into a nigh-impossible engineering task.

Correct, there is no freeway that passes through those impassable mountains. /s

Have you been on that freeway? It's not really a bullet train-friendly route.

Re: Only 31% of California voters want to keep paying for bullet train

#39

Post by privong »

Agustus wrote: post #27
jboles wrote: post #11

Killing it would be short-sighted. If it gets killed, there would probably never be the opportunity to build it ever again. California is flush with tech money, put some of it to good use.

Killing it would be far sighted. Technology is improving transportation methods, we have buses and planes that can do the same thing as this train at much cheaper rates and without tax dollars to construct or maintain.

> we have buses and planes that can do the same thing as this train[...]without tax dollars to construct or maintain.

Tax dollars pay for road construction and maintenance. Tax dollars also subsidize airport construction and operation.

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