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Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

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Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#241

Post by ballenf »

cblades wrote: post #204
ballenf wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you've paid for Amazon Prime then Amazon has become a platform similar your iPhone. Just like you can buy a cheap secondary phone for Steam Link, you can join another company's "free shipping membership program" to buy your Nest (or just pay shipping or get it locally, like you said). Regardless, I think the distinction is less clear than you make out.

Is that a serious suggestion to buy a second phone, or is it supposed to be absurd? How does having prime lock you into Amazon, at all? You're not disallowed to shop elsewhere after signing up for Prime. You don't even have to sign up for someone else's "free shipping membership program" to buy your Nest. You're argument doesn't work for me.

Not it wasn't meant to be absurd. I grew up carrying single-function devices, so maybe don't feel that one device should automatically be able to do every thing its electronics could support.

To be clear, I think Apple is shortsighted in this decision and the Steam Link app isn't actually very competitive with native games. But I'm not its target audience either, even though I have a decent library of Steam games (50+).

My guess is that this move is not really about Steam Link but about the next company to come along with something like "play Android games on your iPhone" functionality.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#242

Post by Steltek »

zwily wrote: post #181
ensignavenger wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can buy a Nest Thermostat from any of thousands of websites and it would work just fine in my home. I can't even get a Steam Link app for free from anyone and have it work effortlessly on my iOS device. These two are not the same, no matter which side you are on.

There are more non-iOS phones out there than iOS phones. I think this is why Apple isn’t too concerned about “monopoly” talk right now. (No, a “monopoly” on Apple products is not an illegal thing.)

A company doesn't need a majority of the market to be prosecuted for anti-competitive behavior and likewise having a majority of the market does not mean your every move is illegally anti-competitive.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#243

Post by Maybestring »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #167
dnomad wrote: post #55

People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services -- this is what actual monopolistic behavior looks like. Apple controls access to a significant share of the mobile application industry and it directly abuses that market power to harm customers by reducing competition and artificially raising prices. Apple is being sued in both US…

Given that iPhones account for just 35% of US mobile phones [1] and only around 15% of phone shipments worldwide [2], this is in no way monopolistic. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/13/ios-and-samsung-market-sha... [2] https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/05/02/apples-iphone-buc...

Is "mobile phone" even a relevant category? What's Apple's share of the high end smart phone market?

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#244

Post by s3r3nity »

dnomad wrote: post #55

People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services -- this is what actual monopolistic behavior looks like. Apple controls access to a significant share of the mobile application industry and it directly abuses that market power to harm customers by reducing competition and artificially raising prices. Apple is being sued in both US…

But Apple doesn't have a significant share of the mobile phone industry - Android (Google) does - with I believe Samsung leading the way. So how can it be monopolistic?

The comparisons in other posts is not quite apples - to - apples (no pun intended) because you can't be a monopoly when you're not in a dominant market position.

Lastly, whether or not the examples you mention "benefit" customers today is irrelevant, as you need to consider the possibility that their dominant position would mean that they might not in the future (i.e. customers not acting in their best long-term interest, or companies leveraging their market dominance in the future for non-customer-centric behavior, etc.) Platitudes like "don't be evil" don't persuade me much.

Edit: don't know why folks are down-voting a comment about US anti-trust law.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#245

Post by mygo »

dnomad wrote: post #55

People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services -- this is what actual monopolistic behavior looks like. Apple controls access to a significant share of the mobile application industry and it directly abuses that market power to harm customers by reducing competition and artificially raising prices. Apple is being sued in both US…

what next? We’ll be suing Apple for holding the monopoly on MacOS?

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#246

Post by dgaaaaaaaaaa »

s3r3nity wrote: post #244
dnomad wrote: post #55

People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services -- this is what actual monopolistic behavior looks like. Apple controls access to a significant share of the mobile application industry and it directly abuses that market power to harm customers by reducing competition and artificially raising prices. Apple is being sued in both US…

But Apple doesn't have a significant share of the mobile phone industry - Android (Google) does - with I believe Samsung leading the way. So how can it be monopolistic? The comparisons in other posts is not quite apples - to - apples (no pun intended) because you can't be a monopoly when you're not in a dominant market position. Lastly, whether or not the examples you mention "benefit" customers today is irrelevant,…

Apple has 60% of market-share in high-end phone market (worldwide, it's higher in US). Oh, it is a major player

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#247

Post by bhnmmhmd »

kbutler wrote: post #225
bhnmmhmd wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refer you to read Apple's Software License Agreements carefully. They're here: https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/ Specifically it states: " The software (including Boot ROM code, embedded software and third party software), documentation, interfaces, content, fonts and any data that came with your iOS Device (“Original iOS Software”), as may be updated or replaced by feature enhancements, software updates or system r…

Would you agree to those terms if you had a realistic alternative? Is this contract written in a way that provides equitable consideration to the user for the provisions that solely benefit Apple? Doesn't seem like it. The ability of Apple to include those take-it-or-leave-it terms suggests a dominant market position (strong market power) held by Apple, regardless of other mobile device platforms. The license is a "C…

> Would you agree to those terms if you had a realistic alternative?

What do you mean? If one doesn't want to agree with such terms, there are quite many android alternatives, some of which even better than iPhone/iPad in certain aspects.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#248

Post by s3r3nity »

dahart wrote: post #230
jakelazaroff wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that iPhones account for just 35% of US mobile phones [1] and only around 15% of phone shipments worldwide [2], this is in no way monopolistic. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/13/ios-and-samsung-market-sha... [2] https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/05/02/apples-iphone-buc...

> Given that iPhones account for just 35% of US mobile phones [1] and only around 15% of phone shipments worldwide [2], this is in no way monopolistic. What is monopolistic to you? Does it need to be over 50%? I don't think economists define it that way, they only argue that one company has excessive influence in a market, which means more power than the other companies in that market. That does seem to be true of Ap…

Economists / anti-trust lawyers (at least in the US) look at a butt-ton of variables, and there is significant literature on the topic (source: I have a graduate degree in Economics - and love to talk about this type of stuff,) but just some of the top variables included:

1) Market definition (to your point - in the tech world, this can get problematic very fast.) 2) Market share 3) Market share rank (i.e. 4% among a million competitors who all have Historically, a lot of analysis & literature to demonstrate market dominance has been on elasticity of demand: e.g. if I as dominant company X adjust prices, and customer demand doesn't change (probably because there are no substitutes and/or the switching cost is too high,) then anti-trust regulators would probably be all on my ass. But in the tech world, new models are still being developed I think, as that concept is not 100% applicable.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#249

Post by s3r3nity »

dgaaaaaaaaaa wrote: post #246
s3r3nity wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Apple doesn't have a significant share of the mobile phone industry - Android (Google) does - with I believe Samsung leading the way. So how can it be monopolistic? The comparisons in other posts is not quite apples - to - apples (no pun intended) because you can't be a monopoly when you're not in a dominant market position. Lastly, whether or not the examples you mention "benefit" customers today is irrelevant,…

Apple has 60% of market-share in high-end phone market (worldwide, it's higher in US). Oh, it is a major player

"High-end phone market" is a specious market definition, though. When you look at "smartphone market share" or even "smartphone OS market share," it's a top player, sure, but not the dominant one (Android is still multiples of iOS.)

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#250

Post by ProAm »

tambourine_man wrote: post #190

I've been saying this for years. There needs to be big scary button with lots of warnings that allows the users to download and run whatever binary they want. That should be guaranteed by law for any turing machine. Curated stores are a great idea but there has to be an alternative.

It all comes down to who owns the machine. In this case you are really just leasing it from Apple.
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