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There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

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Re: There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

#71

Post by viraptor »

ptx wrote: post #69

So, to summarize, ifconfig has to be replaced because it relies on the /proc filesystem and it doesn't handle aliases? This is easily disproven: ifconfig on FreeBSD doesn't rely on /proc and handles aliases just fine. It sounds a bit like the whole OSS/ALSA discussion – some argued that ALSA was needed to replace OSS because OSS didn't support muxing multiple simultaneous audio streams, but strangely OSS on FreeBSD d…

Isn't ifconfig on BSD just an app that happens to share the name and some syntax with the Linux ifconfig? You could map most ifconfig operations to netlink and away from /proc, but that would have other tradeoffs.

Re: There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

#72

Post by hacknat »

The real reason there is drift in Linux tooling is because there are two communities making tools for Linux (GNU and Linux Foundation associated projects) and the two groups seem to find new reasons to hate each other every year. It’s a dumb reason for tooling to drift, but an understandable reason. I have a feeling that ifconfig and netstat will keep up fine, but that the party line will be that they are deprecated.

Re: There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

#73

Post by agumonkey »

iod wrote: post #58

TIL: iproute2 has a color, a brief/human mode, and a one-line mode. I think I am going to be aliasing ip -color to ip from now on. $ ip -br -c a # ip -brief -color address lo UNKNOWN 127.0.0.1/8 ::1/128 eth0 DOWN wlan0 UP 192.0.2.1/24 2001:db8::1/64 fe80::1/64 $ ip -br -c l # ip -brief -color link lo UNKNOWN 00:00:00:00:00:00 eth0 DOWN 00:12:34:56:78:9a wlan0 UP 12:34:56:78:9a:bc

TLDRRTFM of the day

Re: There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

#74

Post by yaleman »

xupybd wrote: post #35
viraptor wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "ip" is useless as a keyword Most docs will mention iproute2. You can use that for googling.

Yeah that’s what I loved about this article, I finally know what to google.

I finally found out how to get netstat on these dang new systemd machines! :)

Re: There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

#75

Post by sureaboutthis »

xtrapolate wrote: post #48
sureaboutthis wrote: post #37

"... an ongoing effort to obsolete the old, cross-Unix standard network administration and diagnosis commands of ifconfig, netstat and the like and replace them with fresh new Linux specific things like ss and the ip suite." Old does not mean bad but Linux chooses that path as it moves further away from UNIX and being a Unix-like system in its pursuit to be Windows.

> "Old does not mean bad" It doesn't automatically mean "good" either. > "in its pursuit to be Windows" Would you please elaborate?

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The article speaks of old software but, instead of fixing what it has and being standards compliant, it chooses to break away and do its own thing along with the new bugs and other issues which will surely arise.

Re: There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

#76

Post by blattimwind »

simias wrote: post #43
pas wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to get the gateway: ip route show default > > ifconfig's output is simply more readable IMO I prefer iproute2's terseness.

I'm not sure "terse" is the right adjective. It presents basically the same amount of information as ifconfig (minus the packet counters) and actually adds a few more flags. It's all about the formatting really. Simply adding an empty line between each interface would go a long way. Also starting the line with the interface name instead of the index. Adding more punctuation to delimit the fields (, : etc...) would be…

It sounds a little bit like air traffic control: "roger dev gbe zero niner alpha one you are cleared for proto kernel scope link strip 4 dash 7 F L 11400 gamma zulu src please copy."

Re: There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

#77

Post by dak1 »

iod wrote: post #58

TIL: iproute2 has a color, a brief/human mode, and a one-line mode. I think I am going to be aliasing ip -color to ip from now on. $ ip -br -c a # ip -brief -color address lo UNKNOWN 127.0.0.1/8 ::1/128 eth0 DOWN wlan0 UP 192.0.2.1/24 2001:db8::1/64 fe80::1/64 $ ip -br -c l # ip -brief -color link lo UNKNOWN 00:00:00:00:00:00 eth0 DOWN 00:12:34:56:78:9a wlan0 UP 12:34:56:78:9a:bc

This is a good reminder that defaults should be simple and human readable.

Advanced options should be behind flags for power users, not the other way around.

Re: There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

#79

Post by [deleted] »

ptx wrote: post #69

So, to summarize, ifconfig has to be replaced because it relies on the /proc filesystem and it doesn't handle aliases? This is easily disproven: ifconfig on FreeBSD doesn't rely on /proc and handles aliases just fine. It sounds a bit like the whole OSS/ALSA discussion – some argued that ALSA was needed to replace OSS because OSS didn't support muxing multiple simultaneous audio streams, but strangely OSS on FreeBSD d…

[deleted]

Re: There are real reasons for Linux to replace ifconfig, netstat, etc

#80

Post by qznc »

ptx wrote: post #69

So, to summarize, ifconfig has to be replaced because it relies on the /proc filesystem and it doesn't handle aliases? This is easily disproven: ifconfig on FreeBSD doesn't rely on /proc and handles aliases just fine. It sounds a bit like the whole OSS/ALSA discussion – some argued that ALSA was needed to replace OSS because OSS didn't support muxing multiple simultaneous audio streams, but strangely OSS on FreeBSD d…

The summary is: ifconfig output format does not support new networking features like IP aliases[0]. Changing the output format would break many scripts, so ifconfig will not be changed.

[0] It does support "interface aliases" and that seems to be something different

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