Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws • Hacker News Board

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#81

Post by jonathanstrange » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:37 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #8

testplzignore wrote: post #3

This is the crux of the problems with how companies are interpreting the GDPR. Every service I've seen with a privacy policy pop up within the last 24 hours has basically justified all of their current data collecting practices as being necessary for their business. The spirit of the GDPR is to improve privacy, not just make Terms of Service pages longer.

Yeah, but the law of unintended consequences is sure to apply. The GDPR hits adtech companies fundamentally.

> The GDPR hits adtech companies fundamentally.

Hopefully...

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#82

Post by brianmcc » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:37 PM UTC

Targeted advertising has become such a big deal, and implemented at such high cost, that I wonder if the trade off is even worth it now. I could imagine Apple or Samsung simply "sponsoring" Facebook for a week or month at a time with banners and messaging - tastefully done of course! - and how much less hassle that would all be, rather than aggregating millions upon millions of cookies and chasing people around the internet, winding them up, etc.

Targeting ads for anonymous searches, fine: search for cars, see car adverts. Simple!

I'm sure there is plenty of data that shows how terrible this whole idea is in terms of wasted ad spend, missed opportunities, so it'll never happen, but it's a nice dream :-)

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#83

Post by Anderkent » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:37 PM UTC

tazjin wrote: post #28

zerostar07 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah but now the product is not free.

It'd be great if companies offered a "buy back your privacy" subscription model. For the services I really don't want to stop using (Twitter ...) I'd definitely be using that.

The users that can afford and would buy this service are exactly the ones that advertisers want to reach. If you stop showing them ads or only share data for people not willing to pay, the data becomes useless.

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#84

Post by toomanybeersies » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

yostrovs wrote: post #5

Considering that large sites with teams of lawyers are failing to follow the rules, how does a small site run by a few regular folks supposed to comply?

Small sites have it easy because their systems are a lot smaller.

It has taken us fairly minimal effort to ensure GDPR compliance. Remember that you don't need automated systems to give users all the information you have or to delete users, it can just be an email form.

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#85

Post by sleepyhead » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

testplzignore wrote: post #3

This is the crux of the problems with how companies are interpreting the GDPR. Every service I've seen with a privacy policy pop up within the last 24 hours has basically justified all of their current data collecting practices as being necessary for their business. The spirit of the GDPR is to improve privacy, not just make Terms of Service pages longer.

Actually the spirit of GDPR is also to make Terms of Service shorter by being clear and understandable. If you as a user is unable to understand what you are agreeing to then it is a violation of GDPR.

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#86

Post by chopin » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

dmitriid wrote: post #60

tazjin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody on Reddit posted a list of Tumblr's "partners" that they share data with by default: https://i.imgur.com/YCNvEMa.png I'm finding it difficult to believe that they can come up with a "legitimate interest" for all of those that would also actually hold up in court.

Twitter’s “partners” are the same (you can request a list from your privacy settings)

Google's as well.

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#87

Post by henrikschroder » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

dmortin wrote: post #58

ckastner wrote: post #6

> "The GDPR explicitly allows any data processing that is strictly necessary for the service - but using the data additionally for advertisement or to sell it on needs the users' free opt-in consent" This is the key point. As the saying goes, on Facebook, you aren't the customer, you are the product. The GDPR just changed this -- rightfully, in my opinion.

Somebody has to pay for it in the end, so Facebook could simply say "agree to targeted advertising and use the site for free or do not agree and pay a monthly fee for the site".

Sign me up!

The sad truth though is that the users who are most likely to pay to get rid of ads, are also the users that are most valuable to advertisers, because that's a signal they have more money to spend than the rest.

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#88

Post by GordonS » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

martin_bech wrote: post #73

GordonS wrote: post #56

> forcing people to accept wide-ranging data collection in exchange for using a service is prohibited under GDPR Erm... I don't think that's true. As long as you are open and transparent about what you are doing, and give users the right to request, update and delete the data you hold on them, then AFAIK this is allowed

Nope thats actually true. You cant force say tracking, if its not absolutely needed, for the product to work. And i think thats why a lot of the popups have dark patterns, to hide the fact, that you can no opt out to these things.

Hmm, seems you are right, I just found this PDF from the ICO: https://ico.org.uk/media/about-the-ico/consultations/2013551...

"Avoid making consent a precondition of a service"

"consent requests must be separate from other terms and conditions. Consent should not be a precondition of signing up to a service unless necessary for that service"

I assume Facebook et al will simply find a way to make everything 'necessary'.

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#89

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

VMG wrote: post #71

ckastner wrote: post #6

> "The GDPR explicitly allows any data processing that is strictly necessary for the service - but using the data additionally for advertisement or to sell it on needs the users' free opt-in consent" This is the key point. As the saying goes, on Facebook, you aren't the customer, you are the product. The GDPR just changed this -- rightfully, in my opinion.

The GDPR ensures that only Facebook will be able to comply, and prospective competitors shouldn't even bother. The regulation counts 58 000 words.

I see so many people parroting this but I just don't get it. Surely it won't be a problem at all for a new startup handling data correctly from day 1? Facebook has a mountain of historical data that was collected using non-GDRP-compliant methods that now falls foul of EU law.

Re: Google and Facebook accused of breaking GDPR laws

#90

Post by belorn » Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

dmortin wrote: post #58

ckastner wrote: post #6

> "The GDPR explicitly allows any data processing that is strictly necessary for the service - but using the data additionally for advertisement or to sell it on needs the users' free opt-in consent" This is the key point. As the saying goes, on Facebook, you aren't the customer, you are the product. The GDPR just changed this -- rightfully, in my opinion.

Somebody has to pay for it in the end, so Facebook could simply say "agree to targeted advertising and use the site for free or do not agree and pay a monthly fee for the site".

Yes, but when that point hits hard enough maybe people will stop saying "Why do you not use Facebook/Gmail, it is free".

Now someone can actually try and compete with a free service. It might not work but its a step closer to happening. For example we have had open source federated social networks, and non-profits that ran email services.