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If Feynman were accused of sexual harassment, would we have lost his insights?

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Re: If Feynman were accused of sexual harassment, would we have lost his insights?

#21

Post by romwell »

alephnullz wrote: post #18
romwell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can we? It's not looking likely that Kevin Spacey may work again, despite his clear talents as an actor. You seem to be surprised that a person in the business of selling his public image can't sell it successfully once that image has been irreparably tarnished. (You are aware that popular actors are celebrities, and what they do off screen matters, right?) > I'm saying that horrible people can make meaningful, posi…

Don't agree "profitable to do so." Where are your statistics to back up that claim? These aren't arguments; they're hypotheses. "Pissing off" huh? Because a few jerkoffs Tweet they're upset doesn't mean most of America cares. That's the problem.

>Don't agree "profitable to do so." Where are your statistics to back up that claim?

"Profitable to do so" in the eyes of his employees. Do you really think these decisions are made to appease Twitter commenters?

Even successful, loved series end up being canceled.

> Because a few jerkoffs Tweet they're upset doesn't mean most of America cares.

Because a few jerkoffs don't care doesn't mean that a lot of people (enough to affect profit margins and public image of the employer) don't :)

Re: If Feynman were accused of sexual harassment, would we have lost his insights?

#22

Post by [deleted] »

alephnullz wrote: post #9
sykh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an odd way of trying to make that point. Wouldn’t it be better to just directly say that? It doesn’t seem controversial. A better scenario to contemplate would be the Nazi medical experiments. Absolutely horrific in every way. Suppose they were beneficial to our understanding of some major disease. Should we use the results?

I'd also say we should absolutely use the results in that case. But that's not the hypothetical. I was asking whether to blacklist someone who might make future contributions to humanity based on an accusation is really a reasonable sacrifice.

[deleted]

Re: If Feynman were accused of sexual harassment, would we have lost his insights?

#24

Post by corinroyal »

alephnullz wrote: post #19
Magmatic wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we may also lose the next potential Einstein by NOT firing them, based on victim stories we know this is the kind of behavior that convinces people to leave institutions or even the entire field itself. When looking at historical figures context is everything. I judge men who sexually harassed women in the 80s way less harshly than men who harass women today, why? Because in the 80s society still told you, 'this…

This is a good point, although I suspect the so-called "victim" here wouldn't have trouble finding gainful employment elsewhere. Basically we're a bunch of crybabies today.

It's either a good point, or we're all crybabies, not both.

Re: If Feynman were accused of sexual harassment, would we have lost his insights?

#25

Post by modbait »

romwell wrote: post #20
modbait wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The atrocities of the Nazis are not in any way comparable to sexual harassment. Sir Tim Hunt might be a better comparison. One (possibly) out-of-bounds joke and he's kicked out of science, no matter how bad the results for humanity. Not to mention his students, some of whom are women.

Sir Tim Hunt is a high-profile public person, not merely a scientist. See these three letters before his name? The ones that spell out S-I-R? Those three letters, along with other titles and positions he held, come with some very tangible benefits that none of use have -- and also some very tangible responsibilities, which, again, aren't bestowed upon everyone else. He wasn't forced to be Sir Tim Hunt, the VIP, the p…

It doesn't appear that there is any consensus that he is a "self-titled chauvinistic pig". And frankly, I'd trust him to babysit my kids before I'd trust most of his detractors. If anything, his handling of the situation makes him even more admirable.

Re: If Feynman were accused of sexual harassment, would we have lost his insights?

#26

Post by romwell »

modbait wrote: post #25
romwell wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sir Tim Hunt is a high-profile public person, not merely a scientist. See these three letters before his name? The ones that spell out S-I-R? Those three letters, along with other titles and positions he held, come with some very tangible benefits that none of use have -- and also some very tangible responsibilities, which, again, aren't bestowed upon everyone else. He wasn't forced to be Sir Tim Hunt, the VIP, the p…

It doesn't appear that there is any consensus that he is a "self-titled chauvinistic pig". And frankly, I'd trust him to babysit my kids before I'd trust most of his detractors. If anything, his handling of the situation makes him even more admirable.

>It doesn't appear that there is any consensus that he is a "self-titled chauvinistic pig".

He literally called himself a chauvinist monster in that joke. Hence self-titled.

My point is that people in his position are held to stricter standards. The standards include carefully choosing what to say.

Sure, he'd make a great babysitter for your kids - he just didn't make a great public person.

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