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The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

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Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#51

Post by thedailymail »

marak830 wrote: post #49
quantisan wrote: post #43

I witnessed a group of 20+ Latin American tourists boarding at some station and then getting off at Shinjuku the other day. One of them held the train door with his body while all 20+ of them strolled in the train nonchalantly. Then the same door blocker proceeded to scream out instructions to the rest of the group. They did the same thing on the way out. Usually there's a smooth flow of people entering and exiting a…

There is so much here that couldn't work as it does, without the implicit assumption that everyone is going to behave politely. Hell the polite queuing after a major earthquake for water and food is absolutely astounding. The foreigners who don't try to live up to the social standards while living here should be shunned by the local gaijins.

Re the polite queuing after earthquakes: I happened to be in Sendai the day of the big earthquake/tsunami/nuclear reactor breakdown. I had no place to stay because I had a flight booked for later that day, which obviously got canceled. I started walking around downtown. There was clearly a lot of nervous energy, and there were hundreds of aftershocks in the first 24 hours, but people were behaving calmly and orderly. I wandered into a hotel to see if I could book a room. They were fully booked, but were letting people who were stuck without a place to stay to sleep in a ballroom. They provided free sheets, pillows and food to about 100 people, many of them stranded foreigners. Some local volunteers brought in gas powered generators so people could charge their phones. The next morning, I went out for a walk, as it was still not possible to get out of town. At 8:00 in the morning, the supermarket in front of the central train station had staff, in uniform, handing out perishable food for free, rather than having to throw it away (there was no electricity so freezers were down.) The word was only starting to trickle in about how serious the damage was farther north. People were universally calm, generous and polite.

I walked around for a few hours, not knowing the town. Many sites of severe structural damage, but some businesses were already open. I passed by a noodle shop run by a young guy. He called out to me and said "You look hungry." (I speak Japanese). He offered me a free bowl of noodles. I finally ended up getting out of town two days later by finding a cab and riding all the way to Fukushima Airport, for the last flight to Tokyo, and then back home to Kobe.

The order, decency, and humanity I experienced those few days still make me tear up when I think about it (even right now).

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#52

Post by contingencies »

pasbesoin wrote: post #48
contingencies wrote: post #23

I've been through mass transit systems in at least fifteen countries by this point. Japan (Osaka) didn't leave a huge impression, as plenty of countries in Asia have similar systems. Yesterday I caught the first inter-city mass transit in China from Guangzhou to Foshan, part of the aggressive infrastructural beginnings of the Pearl River Delta (PRD) megacity. The two cities' systems were evidently conceived and funde…

Your comment made me look. I haven't read all of the following. http://observer.com/2010/12/the-original-wikileaker/ This may not be specifically what you had in mind, but perhaps it pertains: https://archinect.com/features/article/149956364/the-whistle... The Whistleblower Architects: surveillance, infrastructure, and freedom of information according to Cryptome (part 2) Nicholas Korody By Nicholas Korody Jul 7, '16…

Not that. The article would have been ~2000 or so, certainly pre 2005. More 'as is' than 'crystal balling'.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#53

Post by contingencies »

fein wrote: post #30
contingencies wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans would first build a three level carpark and gas station, then a strip mall with a drug store, take-away coffee and donuts. Then they would privatize the publicly funded station, at which time the service quality would tank and the entire facility would fall in to a state of minimum repair. Or something like that.

Are we using reality here or whatever lives in your head? American public transit is public (government owned and run) and it still sucks. Additionally Japan, just like any other country, is going to build concessions and parking into/ around anything that draws enough people to merit an investment.

Reality, depending on what you believe. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/20... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doughnut_shops#United_... https://www.nap.edu/read/10141/chapter/4#42

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#54

Post by contingencies »

twblalock wrote: post #33
contingencies wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans would first build a three level carpark and gas station, then a strip mall with a drug store, take-away coffee and donuts. Then they would privatize the publicly funded station, at which time the service quality would tank and the entire facility would fall in to a state of minimum repair. Or something like that.

In Japan, most of the rail network was privatized in the 1990s and it's still the best in the world. Nothing tanked. Large department stores, malls, hotels, etc. are generally built into the major stations, and are often owned and operated by the rail companies. Most of them really do have drugstores, coffee shops and bakeries/donut shops. It's very convenient for commuters who need to shop on the way to/from work, a…

Yep, I am not table-thumping just drawing an amused sketch of the US stereotype. Regarding real estate as a funding source for transit, HK has a similar model. MTR corporation runs about seven malls I think.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#55

Post by fiblye »

t413 wrote: post #50
lainga wrote: post #2

>Rail stations, whether in Japan or elsewhere, are also great places to see “nudge theory” at work. Gentle nudges, like ultrasonic deterrents to keep teenagers away with "a look of confusion or discomfort, and often a cry of urusai! (Loud!)"...?

Those 'ultrasonic deterrents' should be completely illegal to deploy on/near any publicly accessible property. Having run into them many times over the years here in the US they're horrifically loud, painful, and less of a deterrent and more a punishment for having less-degraded hearing.

Agreed. I'm well beyond being a teenager, but I still hear these things. Some stores put them near their entrances and it's never a pleasant surprise.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#56

Post by sirmarksalot »

twblalock wrote: post #33
contingencies wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans would first build a three level carpark and gas station, then a strip mall with a drug store, take-away coffee and donuts. Then they would privatize the publicly funded station, at which time the service quality would tank and the entire facility would fall in to a state of minimum repair. Or something like that.

In Japan, most of the rail network was privatized in the 1990s and it's still the best in the world. Nothing tanked. Large department stores, malls, hotels, etc. are generally built into the major stations, and are often owned and operated by the rail companies. Most of them really do have drugstores, coffee shops and bakeries/donut shops. It's very convenient for commuters who need to shop on the way to/from work, a…

Japanese privatization is an interesting phenomenon, where crony capitalism gives the corporations immense power, but simultaneously a huge responsibility act like societal patriarchs. At least on the outside, a big corporation can't be seen as evil, and if they ever get caught betraying that trust, CEO suicides are not unheard of.

On the bright side, it means the train lines get built and the fares are kept reasonable, despite monopoly power. On the negative side, people tend to trust these companies way more than is healthy, and if you try to do something that you're legally entitled to, but that a company doesn't like, you generally won't get much sympathy when it doesn't work out.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#57

Post by contingencies »

jlg23 wrote: post #21
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #5

Anecdote time... Tokyo train stations kinda suck. Coming from a few weeks in Malaysia and Singapore, it was interesting to see just how little and how poorly translated English is there. (They speak Japanese and not English, but lets be honest about it being the lingua franca) It was VERY DIFFICULT to figure out how their train colors worked, how Orange gets to Blue (it's a connect, but a couple blocks away). That Gi…

I have never been to Japan myself but those of my friends who were all had nothing but praise for the train system. WRT the lack of English: In most parts of of South America you won't find anyone who speaks English. Same for North Africa. One can be annoyed or just see the humourous aspects and put the car into the "car parking park" (seen in Morocco) before having a "vegetarian in bread" (seen in Berlin). ;)

A friend and I found ourselves stranded in rural Japan when the train system shut down for days due to high winds. Seems to me lots of foreigners tend to visit big cities and tourist centers only then walk away wowed, frankly the infrastructure is more heterogeneous than this set realise.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#58

Post by maxxxxx »

droidist2 wrote: post #46
fein wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The likely answer is that the Japanese are an efficient people in general. It's not surprising that a group of people following the same social norms would have an efficient system for public transport.

In India they follow much different social norms, it's an interesting contrast. https://youtube.com/watch?v=1eAP-BoxVkg

I did this at my last India visit a long time ago. It was frightening and exhilarating at the same time :-).

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#59

Post by mikekchar »

nlawalker wrote: post #28
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #5

Anecdote time... Tokyo train stations kinda suck. Coming from a few weeks in Malaysia and Singapore, it was interesting to see just how little and how poorly translated English is there. (They speak Japanese and not English, but lets be honest about it being the lingua franca) It was VERY DIFFICULT to figure out how their train colors worked, how Orange gets to Blue (it's a connect, but a couple blocks away). That Gi…

Just another anecdote alongside the others. Maybe I got lucky but I found the amount of written and spoken English in Japan, especially in the metropolitan areas, to be perfectly adequate. As for actually getting around, it's just a matter of having the right tools. I'm mostly sharing this for the benefit of anyone thinking of going to Japan. - The landscape of transit cards is confusing, and while many of them are s…

> The Japan Rail Pass, while not having any functional use, did make things cheaper

Just a quick comment for anyone planning to come to Japan. If you are going to stay in Tokyo, then the Japan Rail Pass is probably not worth it (it only gives you a free pass on JR rail). But if you are going anywhere else, you absolutely should get this. Especially on the Shinkansen, you get free reserved seat tickets. Also, the system is set up for this. You go into line to get your tickets and you will magically find that the person who is dealing with you can speak English (because they can see your pass when you are in line and insert an English speaking person discretely into the correct cubicle).

Also, if you ever get into trouble, waving the JR rail pass is like a get out of jail free card. They bend over backwards for pass holders. If you get on the wrong train, they'll just change the tickets. If you miss the last Shinkansen, they will discretely push you onto a full reservation only express train.

Finally, if you want to go anywhere of any distance, the cost reduction will definitely by huge. Trains (especially the Shinkansen) in Japan are expensive. Just going out to Osaka from Tokyo and back will basically pay for a 1 week pass. If you want to go out west or up north then you'll be saving upwards of $1K.

I live in Japan, but about 5 years ago I went to the UK for a couple of years. I needed to go back to Canada for my visa and ended up bouncing around between Canada and Japan, leaving me as a tourist in Japan for 1 month. I absolutely could not believe how great the JR Rail pass was. I went all the way up to Sapporo, which is probably the last time I will ever be able to afford something like that.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#60

Post by mikekchar »

twblalock wrote: post #36
nlawalker wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just another anecdote alongside the others. Maybe I got lucky but I found the amount of written and spoken English in Japan, especially in the metropolitan areas, to be perfectly adequate. As for actually getting around, it's just a matter of having the right tools. I'm mostly sharing this for the benefit of anyone thinking of going to Japan. - The landscape of transit cards is confusing, and while many of them are s…

> - The landscape of transit cards is confusing, and while many of them are still accepted in various places, the existence of such a wide variety is mostly a legacy thing as far as I could tell. I had a Suica card and it worked virtually everywhere I went in Japan, though I didn't venture off the beaten path. I think this is correct. I first went to Japan in 2008, and the cards you had actually mattered. I went agai…

You can use Suica almost everywhere. The reverse is not true. For example, I live in the Tokai region and have a Toica. I can't use it outside of Tokai. I think eventually these things will even out, though. I was surprised that a Passmo card I got in Tokyo and accidentally used in Tokai worked.

But the golden rule in Japan -- make sure to carry enough cash in case you get into trouble :-)

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