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Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

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Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#491

Post by tambourine_man »

mikeash wrote: post #456
tambourine_man wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wake word can be disabled in your phone and it's perfectly functional without it. This way, it only listens when you want it to (theoretically). I'm sure you can appreciate the difference: press a button to talk to Siri vs Siri is always listening. The latter seems crazy to me, on a phone, cylinder, laptop or whatever device it's implemented.

What’s so bad about having a small processor run a recognition routine on all incoming audio, discarding everything that doesn’t match, and activating the device if it does? Are you just worried about accidental activation?

>What’s so bad about having a small processor run a recognition routine on all incoming audio, discarding everything that doesn’t match, and activating the device if it does?

If that was the case, nothing. But we have enough evidence to believe it's not. While having the device listen, even though it's been explicitly configured not to, is a bit more of a stretch.

>Are you just worried about accidental activation?

That could be an inconvenience too, but I'm more concerned with malicious intent.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#492

Post by lopmotr »

BeetleB wrote: post #445
calcifer wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People care deeply about their privacy. No, they don't. Do you really think if, before she made this purchase, someone explained to her all the things that could theoratically go wrong with this device, she would have chosen not to buy it? She only cares now and acts like she doesn't share quite a bit of the blame because it actually affected her. I think it is highly likely she'll just switch to an Apple or Google…

Completely agree with you. I've seen this over and over and over with people I know. They always want something badly enough that they'll find any excuse to dismiss any downsides to it. "Amazon/Google/Apple/Facebook/X have very smart people who will not allow this to happen." "I have nothing to hide." "People who want to listen to our boring conversations are losers. Let them waste their time doing so." And the list…

That's not unreasonable. Lots of good things come with risk and when they go wrong we blame someone. Your house burns down and you blame the arsonist, not yourself for having a house made from fuel! Car crashes kill people and we blame the drunk driver not the victim innocently using the road which is known to be one of the most dangerous places to be.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#493

Post by rohit89 »

mtgx wrote: post #392
yason wrote: post #297

I am oversimplifying here but: * install device that is designed to listen to speech in the house * the device is connected to internet * the device is capable of contacting other internet peers/services/hosts * the device knows a bit about its owner's internet presence such as contacts * the device is equipped with simple conversational user interface based on fuzzy human speech-command detection These basically bou…

> "I felt invaded," she said. "A total privacy invasion. Immediately I said, 'I'm never plugging that device in again, because I can't trust it.'" Let this lady's reaction be a lesson to all of those who say "people don't care about privacy." She wired her home with Alexa devices, and yet when she found out how her privacy could practically be invaded through such devices, she seems like couldn't get rid of them fast…

People care about privacy to the extent that they don't want people in their social circle knowing stuff. They don't care so much about a faceless organization taking it.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#494

Post by reaperducer »

lopmotr wrote: post #461
modzu wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when my phone is locked (which it always is in a pocket) it can't butt dial. whats the analogous behaviour for alexa? also remember these are shared devices in a home, not a personal device in your hand. could i shout into somebody's window, "hey alexa send my browsing history to bob@hotmail.com"!

They can still call the police while locked, which is something that happened to a friend with an old feature phone while were were in the process of illegally hiding/dumping an old car.

Mike, is that you?

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#495

Post by reaperducer »

calcifer wrote: post #439
mtgx wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I felt invaded," she said. "A total privacy invasion. Immediately I said, 'I'm never plugging that device in again, because I can't trust it.'" Let this lady's reaction be a lesson to all of those who say "people don't care about privacy." She wired her home with Alexa devices, and yet when she found out how her privacy could practically be invaded through such devices, she seems like couldn't get rid of them fast…

> People care deeply about their privacy. No, they don't. Do you really think if, before she made this purchase, someone explained to her all the things that could theoratically go wrong with this device, she would have chosen not to buy it? She only cares now and acts like she doesn't share quite a bit of the blame because it actually affected her. I think it is highly likely she'll just switch to an Apple or Google…

> No, they don't. Do you really think if, before she made this purchase, someone explained to her all the things that could theoratically go wrong with this device, she would have chosen not to buy it?

Yes. Do you think if everyone knew what was going to happen with the Facebook scandal before it happened they would have signed up for Facebook? That's why it's called a "scandal."

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#496

Post by saas_sam »

bmans94 wrote: post #455
saas_sam wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You literally carry an audio & video recording device with a GPS chip and multiple wireless attack vectors on you for nearly every waking hour of your life.

Of course I do. But that's not my point. They wallpapered their house with Echos! And now they are 'shocked'. When I get home, my phone usually gets tossed on a charger in my room, and forgotten about (while checking for messages every once in a while). And my phones sole purpose, while capable of it, is not to listen to everything I say and interpret voice commands. I never use Siri, and I would be 'shocked' at this…

> I would be 'shocked' at this point if it sent out a message, that I didn't intend, without alerting me.

Yep. So was couple. About Alexa. Same thing.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#497

Post by BeetleB »

reaperducer wrote: post #495
calcifer wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People care deeply about their privacy. No, they don't. Do you really think if, before she made this purchase, someone explained to her all the things that could theoratically go wrong with this device, she would have chosen not to buy it? She only cares now and acts like she doesn't share quite a bit of the blame because it actually affected her. I think it is highly likely she'll just switch to an Apple or Google…

> No, they don't. Do you really think if, before she made this purchase, someone explained to her all the things that could theoratically go wrong with this device, she would have chosen not to buy it? Yes. Do you think if everyone knew what was going to happen with the Facebook scandal before it happened they would have signed up for Facebook? That's why it's called a "scandal."

>Do you think if everyone knew what was going to happen with the Facebook scandal before it happened they would have signed up for Facebook? That's why it's called a "scandal."

Yes.

I also noticed how they haven't left once the scandal came to light.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#498

Post by nacnud »

beenBoutIT wrote: post #294
pcunite wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Personal Cloud is what we should be building for ourselves. Servers running in your closet at your house.

Any idiot who breaks into your home would be well positioned to steal your server along with all of your memories and use them for ransom/blackmail/etc.

What about embedding into the walls themselves?

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#499

Post by strken »

toss1 wrote: post #198
cortesoft wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was intentional, then yes they shouldn't be able to deflect responsibility. However, if it was just a bug, I think it is a bit unfair to vilify either the company or the developers. Bugs happen, and hopefully they can learn what caused this and prevent this class of bugs in the future.

And this is where "software" diverges from "engineering". Bugs happen in architecture, aircraft, etc. too. the difference is that the actual engineers are paid to have a precautionary approach and spend significant resources to actively prevent bugs from making it into the final product. In contrast, software is often written to "ship first", be "agile", and "move fast and break things". Yet when it causes problems,…

It's worth observing that, firstly, aircraft still crash and bridges still collapse, amd secondly, that a culture of blameless analysis has gone a long way towards making them crash and collapse less.
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