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Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

theverge.com

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Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#111

Post by pembrook »

jacquesm wrote: post #98
bthdonohue wrote: post #5

Hey all – Brian from Instapaper here. We worked really hard to try to avoid a service interruption in the EU, but unfortunately we were unable to. We continue to work hard to ensure that the service interruption is as brief as possible. Let me know if you have any questions...

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. (1) you still hold the data, you are still required to comply with the law and cutting off access does not change that one bit. (2) the period for a response is long enough that once you would receive requests you could handle them in time even if you processed them manually. (3) you have been - or should have been - aware of all this for a very long time, either you failed at estimating th…

Last I heard Instapaper has 3 employees.

Some smaller companies and lower-profile groups within big companies are going to need more time to sort this out, and some may decide it's not worth the risk of the massive fines no matter how compliant they think they are and will block European users. Nobody knows how aggressive regulators will be in enforcing this so far, nor is their any precedent for how the law will be interpreted by actual courts. Calling people incompetent isn't going to change that.

This is one of the negative consequences of enacting complex regulation targeted mostly at giants like Facebook and Google and then applying it to every side project and business in the entire world no matter how big or small. Sorry.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#112

Post by jacquesm »

pembrook wrote: post #111
jacquesm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. (1) you still hold the data, you are still required to comply with the law and cutting off access does not change that one bit. (2) the period for a response is long enough that once you would receive requests you could handle them in time even if you processed them manually. (3) you have been - or should have been - aware of all this for a very long time, either you failed at estimating th…

Last I heard Instapaper has 3 employees. Some smaller companies and lower-profile groups within big companies are going to need more time to sort this out, and some may decide it's not worth the risk of the massive fines no matter how compliant they think they are and will block European users. Nobody knows how aggressive regulators will be in enforcing this so far, nor is their any precedent for how the law will be…

Nonsense. Instapaper was acquired by Pinterest.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#113

Post by Hamuko »

dmix wrote: post #103
princekolt wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that you're still liable for European customer's data, even if you're offline, right? Going offline won't change anything. You can't effectively grab the database and run away.

It still seems like the safest option given the massive risk this legislation is exposing companies. Especially low margin per user businesses like Instapaper. From The Verge: > because it’s not entirely clear right now what information residents will request, what format that information needs to be in, how to locate it and package it, and whether new infrastructure needs to be created to manage this request pipelin…

>It still seems like the safest option given the massive risk this legislation is exposing companies.

The safest option was actually to comply with the GDPR during the two years it has been in force now. I refuse to believe that the changes required were impossible to perform in two years.

I'd love to know when exactly did Instapaper start looking into the GDPR.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#114

Post by typicalbender »

mantas wrote: post #66
latk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR applies if (1) the Controller or a Processor is “established” in the EU, or if (2) the Subject is in the EU. Citizenship doesn't matter, and geoblocking is the legally correct solution. As an example: U.S. tourists on a trip to Paris are protected by the GDPR, but a Polish expat in California is not. (See Art. 3 GDPR https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ )

Huh. This is interesting. People were talking it'd be the other way. That EU citizens would be guarded no matter where they're.

That's incorrect.

"If the Data Subject, moves out of the EU border [...], or goes on holiday then their personal data processed under these circumstances is not covered by the GDPR and they are no longer a Data Subject in the context of the GDPR, unless the organisation is “established” in the EU"

Source: https://cybercounsel.co.uk/data-subjects/

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#115

Post by Hamuko »

taysic wrote: post #93
linker3000 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, no - The GDPR treats the simple act of storing personal data as 'processing', so turning off the service while still keeping the data resolves nothing. It doesn't even matter if you take the data offline, or temporarily obfuscate it.

But what would you be violating exactly? How could those violations be detected? It seems if the EU is so generous in not wanting to fine and you and walking you through the process, then shutting down would look like a reasonable thing to do if you are still attempting to comply.

>How could those violations be detected?

You can tip off the regulators if you believe that there is a violation and they will then investigate it.

Instapaper is giving a pretty good reason to be suspicious.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#116

Post by outside2344 »

jacquesm wrote: post #98
bthdonohue wrote: post #5

Hey all – Brian from Instapaper here. We worked really hard to try to avoid a service interruption in the EU, but unfortunately we were unable to. We continue to work hard to ensure that the service interruption is as brief as possible. Let me know if you have any questions...

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. (1) you still hold the data, you are still required to comply with the law and cutting off access does not change that one bit. (2) the period for a response is long enough that once you would receive requests you could handle them in time even if you processed them manually. (3) you have been - or should have been - aware of all this for a very long time, either you failed at estimating th…

The general global legal principal here is that you can't charge someone for something that happened before the law came into effect.

So you are not correct on #1.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#117

Post by dmix »

Hamuko wrote: post #113
dmix wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still seems like the safest option given the massive risk this legislation is exposing companies. Especially low margin per user businesses like Instapaper. From The Verge: > because it’s not entirely clear right now what information residents will request, what format that information needs to be in, how to locate it and package it, and whether new infrastructure needs to be created to manage this request pipelin…

>It still seems like the safest option given the massive risk this legislation is exposing companies. The safest option was actually to comply with the GDPR during the two years it has been in force now. I refuse to believe that the changes required were impossible to perform in two years. I'd love to know when exactly did Instapaper start looking into the GDPR.

The founder has said that he underestimated the amount of work it was going to take. Anyone who has ever worked on software knows how this stuff happens. You don't truly know how long something is going to take until you dig into the hairy details of implementation.

Plus there are still tons of unknown variables at play with GDPR... even among companies who did spend sufficient time beforehand, as I quoted from the article above. So additionally, the non-obvious requirements further makes the underestimation make sense.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#118

Post by Hamuko »

outside2344 wrote: post #116
jacquesm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. (1) you still hold the data, you are still required to comply with the law and cutting off access does not change that one bit. (2) the period for a response is long enough that once you would receive requests you could handle them in time even if you processed them manually. (3) you have been - or should have been - aware of all this for a very long time, either you failed at estimating th…

The general global legal principal here is that you can't charge someone for something that happened before the law came into effect. So you are not correct on #1.

The regulation came into effect two years ago and I don't really believe that Instapaper hasn't been processing data for the past two years.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#119

Post by jacquesm »

outside2344 wrote: post #116
jacquesm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. (1) you still hold the data, you are still required to comply with the law and cutting off access does not change that one bit. (2) the period for a response is long enough that once you would receive requests you could handle them in time even if you processed them manually. (3) you have been - or should have been - aware of all this for a very long time, either you failed at estimating th…

The general global legal principal here is that you can't charge someone for something that happened before the law came into effect. So you are not correct on #1.

The law has been in effect for two years. And before that one there was another one.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#120

Post by pembrook »

jacquesm wrote: post #112
pembrook wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard Instapaper has 3 employees. Some smaller companies and lower-profile groups within big companies are going to need more time to sort this out, and some may decide it's not worth the risk of the massive fines no matter how compliant they think they are and will block European users. Nobody knows how aggressive regulators will be in enforcing this so far, nor is their any precedent for how the law will be…

Nonsense. Instapaper was acquired by Pinterest.

And how much revenue does the Instapaper service generate for Pinterest?

Lower profile groups within big companies are probably most likely to shut off their services to European users because they have the cautious legal departments of the large company without the important profit center designation which would make compliance a priority.

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