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Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

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Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#241

Post by ConceptJunkie »

bluGill wrote: post #214
daveFNbuck wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes you don't leave your phone in the charger as you wander around your house.

If you are cleaver you can use the wifi signals as a radar and find people/objects even when they don't have a wifi device on them. I'm pretty sure all current technology only works with the have a wifi decide on your person. It is significantly easier to do this and for the most part good enough.

Sounds far-fetched to me. If you are cleaver, you are also likely to get stuck in a coffee cup billboard or Eddie Haskell will trick you into insulting your Spanish-speaking friend.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#242

Post by ryanlol »

confounded wrote: post #230
evv wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've told my roommate I'm moving out if he ever buys an Alex/Google/Apple assistant device. Do you have an Apple or Google device near you right now? Does it have a microphone, battery power, and a connection to the internet? What about your roommate? Do you ever have sensitive conversations near these devices? Of course I'm not suggesting you should abandon such technology. I'm just wondering why you draw the line…

> I'm just wondering why you draw the line at "Alex/Google/Apple assistant device" There’s a big difference between: - Devices which are by design always actively listening and sending real-time audio to computers you can’t control or even really trust, with unknown security properties, and consumer-appliance security life-cycles/support - Devices that can be configured to do that, but which you have some control ove…

>Devices which are by design always actively listening and sending real-time audio to computers you can’t control

Oh, what devices are these?

>Devices that can be configured to do that, but which you have some control over ... and generally won’t, without some form of consent

Ah, so you mean like "Alex/Google/Apple assistant devices"?

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#243

Post by masklinn »

dustinmoorenet wrote: post #140

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

IR camera would probably make this simpler than a visible-light camera. You want to know if there are people in the room, you don't really care who they are specifically.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#244

Post by atomical »

dustinmoorenet wrote: post #140

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

I thought this was going to be sarcasm until I got to the end. It sounds like a project where the security would make it too much of a burden.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#245

Post by EpicEng »

kinsomo wrote: post #59
DiabloD3 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to watchword detection, the microphone amp would always be on.

> Due to watchword detection, the microphone amp would always be on. I don't think that would be a bad thing; especially if there's a switch to disable the mic. When you turn it off, you'll get reliable feedback to know it's actually off. I think it's important that these kinds of devices have simple feedback and control mechanisms that can be independently verified and reasoned about. Software is too opaque and too…

Yeah, except for the fact that I have one in my room and I haven't desired a night light for about 30 years.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#246

Post by gerbilly »

titzer wrote: post #150
amzn_engineer1 wrote: post #66

What actually happened: Alexa misinterpreted some voice commands and activated a "call" skill. The people involved and local news got very excited and escalated this into a conspiracy story. Amazon takes customer privacy EXTREMELY seriously. There's no way a team would get the "ok" to build a skill that randomly records private conversations then sends them to a random contact. It also doesn't make any logical sense…

The obvious, predictable and serious screwup occurs and people shrug it off. Engineers from Amazon post how it's all a regrettable mistake and it won't happen again. I am not gonna unload on you specifically here, but if you could maybe pass along to whoever is making business and product decisions over there that yeah, maybe 80% are stupid enough to buy this crap, but there are a huge number of people that are extre…

>If there was an Alexa in my place of residence, I would rip it out of the wall, smash it to bits with a hammer, and fire it out of a cannon into the sun.

You may consider disposing of the bits at Kilauea instead of the sun. It would be almost the same and much more affordable.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#247

Post by ReverseCold »

crooked-v wrote: post #189
dustinmoorenet wrote: post #140

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

https://www.home-assistant.io doesn't have computer vision, but can use motion sensors and the like to tell where people are, and use that to activate/deactivate devices. It's all open source and runs entirely locally.

PIR sensors can tell you whether there are people (or pets) in a room. Never tried one, but they should work pretty well.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#248

Post by softwarefounder »

softwarefounder wrote: post #14

Pays Amazon for a listening device and installs in home...gets upset when it listens.

Obviously I'm being facetious.

But there is a hilarity of, on one hand being privacy centric, and with the other hand, planting a listening device in ones home.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#249

Post by toomuchtodo »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #241
bluGill wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are cleaver you can use the wifi signals as a radar and find people/objects even when they don't have a wifi device on them. I'm pretty sure all current technology only works with the have a wifi decide on your person. It is significantly easier to do this and for the most part good enough.

Sounds far-fetched to me. If you are cleaver, you are also likely to get stuck in a coffee cup billboard or Eddie Haskell will trick you into insulting your Spanish-speaking friend.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/09/origin-wireless-motion-d...

Not only can you detect motion and objects through physical mass using WiFi spectrum with a properly equipped device, you can detect if someone is breathing.

“What's more, this "Time Reversal Machine" technology is essentially just some clever algorithmic work with little burden on the processor, so it can potentially be added to any existing WiFi mesh routers via a firmware update. In other words, security system vendors should take note.”

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#250

Post by ajross »

btgeekboy wrote: post #34
asn0 wrote: post #15

Summary of vague technical details (which may be all we hear about this): > an Alexa engineer investigated ... they said 'our engineers went through your logs, and they saw exactly what you told us, they saw exactly what you said happened, and we're sorry.' He apologized like 15 times in a matter of 30 minutes and he said we really appreciate you bringing this to our attention, this is something we need to fix!" > th…

It sounds like she had the voice-activated equivalent of butt-dialing.

Yeah, pretty much. It's likely that the device heard something like "Alexa, send a note to Enrique" and then recorded and sent the subsequent note to the matching contact that it found. The microfailure is that it either failed to respond to the user in a way that was clear, or did it in a way that the user didn't notice (I dunno, volume all the way down? Output to a bluetooth speaker or headphone jack that wasn't audible?). And that can be fixed.

The macrofailure, though, is that you have a device just guessing at what you want and doing it. That can't be fixed without going back to manually constructed (or at least manually triggered) notifications. Which for "send a note" might be an obvious fix, sure, but there is a lot of gray area in what constitutes "privacy" and Alexa would be pretty useless if you had to affirmatively OK everything it did.

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