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Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

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Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#201
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's not a complete waste of natural resources because it helps secure "the chain"?

How much energy is spent securing conventional financial systems? You have to include everything: banks, minting, enforcement, physical security, even military and intelligence action.

Why is this argument repeated so often? How is that comparison not clearly absurd to you? The conventional financial system is very obviously many orders of magnitude more efficient than bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument is that by doing a 51% attack you undermine the market value so you never get the rewards. This makes sense, but only for the leading crypto coin. As we see here today, you can 51% attack smaller coins, which should imply an increase in the value of Bitcoin from consolidation.

The spooky thing that this made me realize, is that if anyone did find a vulnerability in bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency) is that they would have a greater incentive to only slowly leech off the system, because they will be able to siphon out much more over time than if everyone panics over security. The weapon is no good unless it's secret.

This is basically the plot of F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Diamond as Big as the Ritz, which takes it to its logical conclusion (but I won't spoil it, it's a fun short read.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_as_Big_as_the_Ritz

Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#203

When Bitcoin was running up to $20,000, I tried to analyze the system and come to a personal conclusion about its equilibrium value, because I didn't want to miss out if it really was the currency of the future. I ended up not investing, because of the possibility of a double-spend attack. I think that cryptocurrency enthusiasts are seriously underestimating the importance of double-spending attacks to the economics…

This attacked occurred on BTG a clone of Bitcoin, appropriating the name “Bitcoin” Gold.

It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense is a system where you hold all your bitcoins in a "bitcoin bank" decentralized or trustless?

The second layer solutions such as Lightning Network don't require you letting other people hold your Bitcoin. They're still decentralized and trustless.

But they also require observation for cheating because time matters in the execution of contract settlement when you have bad actors. It is still trustless though.

Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#205
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you want to make money directly, sure. If you want to harm a community in which the currency is widely used, the incentives are different.

What kind of incentive does the attacker have to just harm a community of a distributed system?

How about environmentalism?

Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spooky thing that this made me realize, is that if anyone did find a vulnerability in bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency) is that they would have a greater incentive to only slowly leech off the system, because they will be able to siphon out much more over time than if everyone panics over security. The weapon is no good unless it's secret.

Nah, you could short-sell Bitcoin. Take out a sell option, crash the value, buy cheap, then exercise the option. Information is valuable, no matter which direction it predicts the market to go.

An interesting thought, but in practice, trading derivatives affects the value of the underlying pretty strongly. Whoever is selling you those puts is selling bitcoin (or futures) to hedge, which would drive the price down as you try to put on your position.

Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#207
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you want to make money directly, sure. If you want to harm a community in which the currency is widely used, the incentives are different.

What kind of incentive does the attacker have to just harm a community of a distributed system?

An interest in a competing financial system.

Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#208
post #191

How is the price not crashing? It's down 10%, which is pretty much like the rest of the market.

Because shitcoin prices have no relation to any sort of reality. Some shitcoins are traded on exchanges even if no actual coin or code existed.

They would exist as ERC20 tokens I believe...?

Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe all that energy spent to secure the chain is not so bad after all.

So it's not a complete waste of natural resources because it helps secure "the chain"?

You know all that sunlight that hits the Earth that we don't convert into energy. Wasted natural resource. Loads of it.

Re: Bitcoin Gold Hit by Double Spend Attack, Exchanges Lose Millions

#210
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you want to make money directly, sure. If you want to harm a community in which the currency is widely used, the incentives are different.

What kind of incentive does the attacker have to just harm a community of a distributed system?

Pure carnage? Blackhats are real.
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