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OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

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Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#51

Post by mediocrejoker »

linguae wrote: post #31
jgh wrote: post #2

I'm not sure why the article is speculating about a "seismic" change. Apple (and Microsoft and Google have followed) has established a pattern for their OS evolution: yearly incremental updates.

When Steve Jobs announced the transition from the PowerPC to the x86 architecture in 2005, he mentioned that the transition from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X which took place between 2001 and 2003 set Apple up for the next 20 years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghdTqnYnFyg It's 2018, 20 years since Apple first announced Mac OS X at WWDC 1998 as a change from their original Rhapsody strategy. The 20th anniversary of the ac…

Maybe if Apple kills their general purpose desktop enough designers will migrate to Linux and decide to improve the desktop UX there. It's perhaps unlikely but one can dream.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#52

Post by tannhaeuser »

_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

Given the decline of the desktop software market, I'm not sure a radical redesign makes sense for Apple. Looking at Apple's lineup, what's driving sales seems to be the end user market, and it's not clear to me Apple wants to be in the Pro market anymore. In any case, the Pro market is about delivering workhorses for running (Adobe et al) software, so a radical redesign will probably result in Adobe et al stopping to produce Mac OS software alltogether.

The maturity of the desktop software "market" is also evident in Linux. Ubuntu has recently choosen the venerable X.org rather than wayland for its LTS release over compatibility and stability concerns. I'd say that's a reasonable choice; after all, you're using Linux for apps that have been in the making for over 20 years, such as Inkscape, Krita, Gimp, Blender, etc.

I'm also not sure what Docker and sandboxing brings to the table (except for developers). Desktop workflows are organized around open file formats and clipboard cut/paste.

So I agree future Apple products will focus on iOS. There's simply so much more money to be made there.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#53

Post by georgrwasington »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #18
_bxg1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, some (arguably most) of the missing features/core problems are due to the fact that OSX has been all-but-ignored by Apple for half a decade, but some of them are just due to the fact that the UNIX paradigms are becoming outdated. Google is trying to solve the latter problem with Fuschia, you're right, which is interesting. But so far that OS's UX also looks like it's primarily mobile-focused, even if it's desig…

I actually like having to use third party utilities for things like snapping, because it means I can pick the snapping paradigm I want, rather than the one Apple chooses for me.

Well you will be happy to know that you can get third party utilities to manage window snapping in Windows too.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#54

Post by _bxg1 »

__sr__ wrote: post #46
_bxg1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, some (arguably most) of the missing features/core problems are due to the fact that OSX has been all-but-ignored by Apple for half a decade, but some of them are just due to the fact that the UNIX paradigms are becoming outdated. Google is trying to solve the latter problem with Fuschia, you're right, which is interesting. But so far that OS's UX also looks like it's primarily mobile-focused, even if it's desig…

macOS does have — kind of — window snapping, doesn’t it? The split window mode? Or am I missing something? Although I agree that it should be more flexible and should have better keyboard controls....

It does not, or at least I haven't found it in the past four years of using OSX for all of my professional development.

It has multiple desktop spaces, fullscreen mode, and "expose". It used to be that clicking the green dot on a window expanded it in developer-defined ways that were often unpredictable, but that got replaced with fullscreen mode.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#55

Post by pier25 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

A huge point in favor of macOS is the quality of its ecosystem.

I only noticed this a couple of years ago when I tried to switch to Windows. When trying to find replacements for apps I use daily either there was nothing that had the functionality I wanted or what I found was just terrible. I found tons of win32 crap, or apps that didn't support scaling properly. Even software from Adobe...

Some examples: Alfred, iStatMenus, Karabiner, BetterTouchTool, etc.

After a couple of days and a buggy experience with a Surface Book 1 I returned it and bought a MBP.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#56

Post by __sr__ »

_bxg1 wrote: post #54
__sr__ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS does have — kind of — window snapping, doesn’t it? The split window mode? Or am I missing something? Although I agree that it should be more flexible and should have better keyboard controls....

It does not, or at least I haven't found it in the past four years of using OSX for all of my professional development. It has multiple desktop spaces, fullscreen mode, and "expose". It used to be that clicking the green dot on a window expanded it in developer-defined ways that were often unpredictable, but that got replaced with fullscreen mode.

I am talking about the Split View mode described at https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT204948

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#57

Post by _bxg1 »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #52
_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

Given the decline of the desktop software market, I'm not sure a radical redesign makes sense for Apple. Looking at Apple's lineup, what's driving sales seems to be the end user market, and it's not clear to me Apple wants to be in the Pro market anymore. In any case, the Pro market is about delivering workhorses for running (Adobe et al) software, so a radical redesign will probably result in Adobe et al stopping to…

Developers have to have an OS to work from, no matter how much end-user usage shifts to mobile. Otherwise there would be no apps for those other platforms.

Apple may well get out of the developer game, which seems like a dumb idea given their market share, but I'm neither a finance expert nor an Apple executive, so maybe that's just how the numbers play out.

Microsoft is making a decent-sized push in this space lately, with the Linux subsystem, Visual Studio Code, etc. So I would guess they'll end up taking Apple's market share, which is a bit of a shame as far as I'm concerned.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#58

Post by pier25 »

drb91 wrote: post #11
_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

I don't think that the obvious problems with OS X (macOS, whatever) are with the UX, though. Sure, there are problems on that front, but I don't think they're the major pain points people deal with on a daily basis. Meanwhile, user-controllable per-process (or per-app) sandboxing would provide tangible benefit to all of us. This means, easy controls for accessing filesystem, network, cpu, gpu, memory, peripherals, an…

> If not, Google is coming down the road with Fuschia.

I'm also hoping Fuchsia will save us.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#59

Post by _bxg1 »

exelius wrote: post #47
_bxg1 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm well aware of Chrome OS. It's great for casual use, but to my knowledge it's really not a reasonable development platform. Generally speaking, developers want/need: - A fully-accessible file system - A bash command line - Tool support. Repositories, code runtimes, compilers, IDE's, etc. I know there are some all-in-one web-based IDE's that you can work in, which are interesting, but I've yet to see one that could…

With all the new IAC stuff coming out, expect big companies to move the web IDE route over the next 10 years. Even if it’s less functional, they will push it out. I have several clients really interested in it; not least because in combination with a serverless architecture, it makes end-to-end security really easy.

It's imaginable, especially with WebAssembly on the horizon, but I still don't see non-web developers ever being able to use a web IDE without making sacrifices.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#60

Post by _bxg1 »

__sr__ wrote: post #56
_bxg1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not, or at least I haven't found it in the past four years of using OSX for all of my professional development. It has multiple desktop spaces, fullscreen mode, and "expose". It used to be that clicking the green dot on a window expanded it in developer-defined ways that were often unpredictable, but that got replaced with fullscreen mode.

I am talking about the Split View mode described at https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT204948

Huh. Well look at that. It's apparently hard to find, and it does appear that you're limited to splitting a "fullscreen" view - i.e., no menu bar, dock, or other windows - but it's better than nothing.
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