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OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

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Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#31
post #2

I'm not sure why the article is speculating about a "seismic" change. Apple (and Microsoft and Google have followed) has established a pattern for their OS evolution: yearly incremental updates.

When Steve Jobs announced the transition from the PowerPC to the x86 architecture in 2005, he mentioned that the transition from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X which took place between 2001 and 2003 set Apple up for the next 20 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghdTqnYnFyg

It's 2018, 20 years since Apple first announced Mac OS X at WWDC 1998 as a change from their original Rhapsody strategy. The 20th anniversary of the actual release of Mac OS X for consumers is approaching in a few years.

Now, I still believe that there is plenty of life in Mac OS X, and I could see it easily being usable at least throughout the 2020s, provided that Apple maintains it in the meanwhile.

However, I definitely wouldn't mind a new desktop OS. Let's face it: modern desktops such as Windows, Mac OS X, GNOME and its derivatives like Cinnamon, and KDE are all based on the GUI paradigm developed at Xerox PARC for the Xerox Alto workstation. This paradigm was further developed by Apple for the Lisa and the original Macintosh, and it has been further refined by NeXTSTEP, Windows 95, and early versions of Mac OS X. However, there are other GUI paradigms that haven't been tried in desktop environments outside of research labs and niche environments. For example, Xerox PARC also developed the Smalltalk environment. While it is commonly thought of as a programming language, it is more than just that; it is an operating system running inside a VM where everything is an object. This environment could easily be used to write full-fledged applications that also support message passing through a REPL. It is possible to build a system of GUI applications that are scriptable and composable through Smalltalk's message passing system, thus combining the usability advantages of contemporary GUI applications with the power of the command line.

There are other features that we don't have yet that can be added to a new operating system. For example, we came close to having a database file system available for the desktop when Microsoft was working on WinFS over a decade ago, but unfortunately it was cancelled in order to get Windows Vista shipped faster. Having a semantically-rich file system would be a very nice thing.

At the same time, though, given that the iOS platform is Apple's major revenue stream, I am concerned that the days of the Mac are numbered. I feel it is Apple's dream for everyone to be using the closed-down iOS instead of a general-purpose OS such as macOS. I feel Apple has been preparing pro Mac users for this transition by deliberately neglecting the Mac Mini and Mac Pro lines and by turning the MacBook Pro into basically an expensive, "blinged-out" MacBook Air Plus, signaling to pro users that the future of Apple won't include them (although the announcement of the 2019 Mac Pro might be contrary to this view).

All of this is to say that I would not be surprised if we see a new OS from Apple within the next five years, but I'm concerned that instead of seeing the next step of general purpose desktop computing, we're going to see a scaled-up version of iOS instead, which would be disappointing, especially if general purpose desktop computing is relegated to Windows and desktop Linux. I'm of the opinion that we do need another non-Apple general-purpose desktop OS, at least to hedge our bets in case Apple goes all-iOS and to avoid the situation where Microsoft has a monopoly on commercial general-purpose desktop operating systems.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#32
post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

Apple have basically spent the minimal amount of resources on Mac portables the past few years. We should all get the picture and migrate elsewhere, I'm afraid. Windows laptops are looking more and more appealing...

Windows is looking more and more appealing, at least. Maybe Apple will just say to-hell-with-it and start selling MacBooks with Windows preinstalled. If Microsoft got the Linux subsystem fleshed out, I'd buy one.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#33
post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

You're overlooking Chrome OS (with open source equivalent Chromium OS). While it might not be ready for pro-level production, it certainly is a revolutionary lightweight OS that's gaining more and more traction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#34
post #33
post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

You're overlooking Chrome OS (with open source equivalent Chromium OS). While it might not be ready for pro-level production, it certainly is a revolutionary lightweight OS that's gaining more and more traction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS

I'm well aware of Chrome OS. It's great for casual use, but to my knowledge it's really not a reasonable development platform. Generally speaking, developers want/need:

- A fully-accessible file system

- A bash command line

- Tool support. Repositories, code runtimes, compilers, IDE's, etc.

I know there are some all-in-one web-based IDE's that you can work in, which are interesting, but I've yet to see one that could act as a full replacement for professional, native tools. And most of those don't support anything other than web development.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#35
My first OS X machine was an iBook G4 purchased in 2005. At the time I was rather tickled that, out of the box, it was still able to run (some) 17 year old classic Mac OS software from 1988.

Today I have software on my machine that's barely 5 years old and will stop working when 32-bit support is dropped. It will be the largest backward-compatibility purge in Mac history.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#36
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that OSX is pretty creaky in certain areas, particularly the Finder for me. A spotty SMB/AFP connection should not lockup a system, and yet has remained a nightmare for as long as I can remember. Sadly, Apple has scared me off their legacy software rewrites with their rewrite of iTunes and High Sierra. The releases were either disastrously sloppy (High Sierra) or a complete letdown (iTunes remains hot garbage…

To be fair, iTunes has been hot garbage for as long as I can remember

In 2002 it was straight up amazing.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#37
post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

What is "window snapping"? If it's that thing Ubuntu does where accidentally dragging a window too close to one of the edges makes it spontaneously take over the whole screen, I'm glad OS X doesn't do that.

It's being able to automatically resize a window to one half of the screen or the other. Typically this can be done by dragging it to the sides, or by a keyboard shortcut (usually Windows Key + Left/Right Arrow).

No doubt it would be easy to provide a disable option; just because it annoys you doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#38
post #15
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had established that same pattern before too, until they released MacOS X and created a seismic change. What the author is saying is that we should be coming up on a new chip for the Mac pretty soon, and if history is any guide, we may also be upon a brand new OS. That being said, I don't think we'll see seismic shift, unless you count the possible unification of iOS and MacOS a seismic shift.

> we should be coming up on a new chip for the Mac pretty soon, and if history is any guide, we may also be upon a brand new OS. If anything, I would interpret this to mean that a new OS is further off than the chip--the transition from 68k to PPC was not accompanied by a major OS change; that came with OSX several years later. Same with the transition from PPC to x86: snow leopard was notoriously "boring", and we're…

It's possible for a hypothetical transition from x86 to a new architecture to be accompanied with an OS change. Had Pink/Taligent been completed as originally planned, then the transition from the 68k to the PowerPC would have been accompanied by a transition from System 7 to Pink/Taligent. Part of the reason that IBM got involved with the development of Taligent was the AIM (Apple/IBM/Motorola) alliance, which was formed in 1991 and led to the PowerPC transition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taligent

Unfortunately the development efforts of Taligent failed, which led to the equally-doomed Copland project, which led to Apple's purchase of NeXT. This saga lasted around a decade.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#39
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, iTunes has been hot garbage for as long as I can remember

In 2002 it was straight up amazing.

I just want to hammer home how correct you are. I remember thinking in 2006: "all audio consumption applications eventually go to shit. When will iTunes go?"

12 years later, the application is a nightmare to use while Spotify is a joy. I have my fingers crossed that Spotify remains usable, because I don't see them making huge business model shifts.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#40
post #38
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should be coming up on a new chip for the Mac pretty soon, and if history is any guide, we may also be upon a brand new OS. If anything, I would interpret this to mean that a new OS is further off than the chip--the transition from 68k to PPC was not accompanied by a major OS change; that came with OSX several years later. Same with the transition from PPC to x86: snow leopard was notoriously "boring", and we're…

It's possible for a hypothetical transition from x86 to a new architecture to be accompanied with an OS change. Had Pink/Taligent been completed as originally planned, then the transition from the 68k to the PowerPC would have been accompanied by a transition from System 7 to Pink/Taligent. Part of the reason that IBM got involved with the development of Taligent was the AIM (Apple/IBM/Motorola) alliance, which was f…

Hey, great info! Wasn't aware of that, and it definitely changes the substance of my comment above.
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