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OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

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Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#11

Post by drb91 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

I don't think that the obvious problems with OS X (macOS, whatever) are with the UX, though. Sure, there are problems on that front, but I don't think they're the major pain points people deal with on a daily basis.

Meanwhile, user-controllable per-process (or per-app) sandboxing would provide tangible benefit to all of us. This means, easy controls for accessing filesystem, network, cpu, gpu, memory, peripherals, and other processes.

Most of these controls exist, but in ways that don't map well to the desktop environment. How do I see what that adobe agent is doing? Sure, I can buy Little Snitch, but this should really be built into the OS. Too much of the UNIX model is designed to secure a user's information from other users, which simply isn't a massive concern these days when we often have dedicated workstations and have issues trusting the processes we run as our own user. What if I suspect my TODO list has a built-in bitcoin miner? I should be able to limit its use of the CPU and GPU.

Meanwhile, my editor still needs to read the configs of all my sandboxed apps, and whatever else I want it to access. This isn't necessarily an easy problem, but it's one I have confidence Apple could tackle, especially with mobile paving the way already.

All this time, docker has been innovating on the sandboxing, with mostly positive results. Android, I believe, runs each process as its own user, leveraging the existing UNIX controls better. I'm not sure what precisely iOS does, but it's locked down well enough to cause me immense frustration building stuff for my phone--not exactly what I'd like to see on the desktop, but they clearly have the ability to provide many of the controls I am looking for on the desktop.

I'm sure this would result in an improved UX as a result, TBH.

If not, Google is coming down the road with Fuschia.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#12

Post by [deleted] »

_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

[deleted]

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#14

Post by _bxg1 »

drb91 wrote: post #11
_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

I don't think that the obvious problems with OS X (macOS, whatever) are with the UX, though. Sure, there are problems on that front, but I don't think they're the major pain points people deal with on a daily basis. Meanwhile, user-controllable per-process (or per-app) sandboxing would provide tangible benefit to all of us. This means, easy controls for accessing filesystem, network, cpu, gpu, memory, peripherals, an…

Yeah, some (arguably most) of the missing features/core problems are due to the fact that OSX has been all-but-ignored by Apple for half a decade, but some of them are just due to the fact that the UNIX paradigms are becoming outdated. Google is trying to solve the latter problem with Fuschia, you're right, which is interesting. But so far that OS's UX also looks like it's primarily mobile-focused, even if it's designed to be adaptable to desktops too.

I think OSX's UX problems are mainly in the first category - Apple just doesn't care. Windows introduced snapping in Windows 7, nearly ten years ago. It is extremely useful and seems pretty easy to implement. As you say, you can always get a third-party application like the (fantastic) BetterTouchTool. But you shouldn't have to do that for something so fundamental. The very least Apple could be bothered to do is keep up.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#15

Post by drb91 »

jedberg wrote: post #4
jgh wrote: post #2

I'm not sure why the article is speculating about a "seismic" change. Apple (and Microsoft and Google have followed) has established a pattern for their OS evolution: yearly incremental updates.

They had established that same pattern before too, until they released MacOS X and created a seismic change. What the author is saying is that we should be coming up on a new chip for the Mac pretty soon, and if history is any guide, we may also be upon a brand new OS. That being said, I don't think we'll see seismic shift, unless you count the possible unification of iOS and MacOS a seismic shift.

> we should be coming up on a new chip for the Mac pretty soon, and if history is any guide, we may also be upon a brand new OS.

If anything, I would interpret this to mean that a new OS is further off than the chip--the transition from 68k to PPC was not accompanied by a major OS change; that came with OSX several years later. Same with the transition from PPC to x86: snow leopard was notoriously "boring", and we're still on an os distinctly similar to snow leopard.

Meanwhile, both iOS and ARM were borne out of necessity. I'm not sure how to figure them into predictions of the future here.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#16

Post by __sr__ »

_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

Microsoft brought their essentials — kernel, filesystem, API etc. — up to scratch in mid 2000s. Vista and and 8 may not have been successful, but they played an important role in the evolution of Windows and Microsoft is now reaping the rewards in the form of Windows 10 — an OS which was dubbed as horribly unstable at launch and yet has become rock solid with updates — except for some unfortunate decisions like forced updates, privacy concerns, ads etc.

Apple did something similar when they switched from Classic Mac OS to Mac OS X - a transition which helped them stay alive and eventually bounce back when almost every one had given up on them. The transition indirectly led them the ultimate success of iOS and iPhone.

Microsoft was left behind in the smartphone race because they were late to the transition — the smartphone revolution started when they were still going through it and they were caught empty handed. They had nothing to show when they desperately needed an OS for smartphones. Had they launched the equivalent of Windows Phone 8 in 2009 or 2010, the history may have been very different from the one we know.

But the world has come full cycle, while the Microsoft Windows ecosystem is still relatively young and can probably keep going for another decade or two, Apple’s OS is starting to show its age. It’s not just the age of macOS — it is much older then that. Apple finally decided to overhaul their filesystem, but other things like the kernel, the API etc. still need the treatment.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#17

Post by digi_owl »

_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

I am honestly not sure these things needs to change.

At least not until we have input systems that are superior to keyboard and mouse (and no, touch screen so far is not).

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#18

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

_bxg1 wrote: post #14
drb91 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the obvious problems with OS X (macOS, whatever) are with the UX, though. Sure, there are problems on that front, but I don't think they're the major pain points people deal with on a daily basis. Meanwhile, user-controllable per-process (or per-app) sandboxing would provide tangible benefit to all of us. This means, easy controls for accessing filesystem, network, cpu, gpu, memory, peripherals, an…

Yeah, some (arguably most) of the missing features/core problems are due to the fact that OSX has been all-but-ignored by Apple for half a decade, but some of them are just due to the fact that the UNIX paradigms are becoming outdated. Google is trying to solve the latter problem with Fuschia, you're right, which is interesting. But so far that OS's UX also looks like it's primarily mobile-focused, even if it's desig…

I actually like having to use third party utilities for things like snapping, because it means I can pick the snapping paradigm I want, rather than the one Apple chooses for me.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#19

Post by reaperducer »

_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

All I want for Christmas is macOS to stop showing me the SPOD whenever an external hard drive spins up.

Reminds me of DOS days.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#20

Post by microtherion »

sarreph wrote: post #9

What's the sentiment on OS X being rechristened macOS ? Doesn't this count as a sort've era 2.5?

OS X used to be Mac OS X. Branding does not matter a whole lot for the underlying technology.

I feel that there was a pretty big technological change between "Rhapsody" and "Mac OS X", but the other name changes were not accompanied by comparable changes.

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