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82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

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Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#201

Post by wst_ »

Pete_D wrote: post #193
hellofunk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple weeks ago, a popular post here on HN was how U.S. culture was actually lagging Japanese culture by about 10 - 20 years, while much of the rest of the world lags U.S. culture by a few years, and how things that were trendy in Japan quite a while ago are just now getting popular in the U.S. and then they will spread to Australia and other places in a few years. So it's interesting to see your opinion that is c…

Do you have a link to that post?

Probably this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16999407

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#202

Post by doorbumper »

annabellish wrote: post #197
cup-of-tea wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. If the post wasn't about that then why does it specifically call out four male role models? It could have just left it at Grace Hopper, but no. The post contains more negative than positive by far.

The point is that when _anyone_ thinks about role models in computer science and programming, all of the options fit into a pretty small niche. It _is_ relevant to have those examples, because there's a world of difference between nobody having any role models at all, and every role model being from one group. Think about how much the existence of these role models obviously matters to you, and realise that nobody wa…

Those four role models don't look like me, and I think they're all awful examples of people someone should look up to. But you need to acknowledge both sides. Stop being so stubborn and look at it objectively. We do need more diversity in role models, however by saying you want less of the current role models you are initiating a direct attack. It's tricky business either way. But perhaps it would be better to say that you wish four great role models that look like you also held such prominent mindshare.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#203

Post by cup-of-tea »

annabellish wrote: post #197
cup-of-tea wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. If the post wasn't about that then why does it specifically call out four male role models? It could have just left it at Grace Hopper, but no. The post contains more negative than positive by far.

The point is that when _anyone_ thinks about role models in computer science and programming, all of the options fit into a pretty small niche. It _is_ relevant to have those examples, because there's a world of difference between nobody having any role models at all, and every role model being from one group. Think about how much the existence of these role models obviously matters to you, and realise that nobody wa…

> The point is that when _anyone_ thinks about role models in computer science and programming, all of the options fit into a pretty small niche.

Men are not a "niche" and, again, I really don't care that those people all have penises. To equate Donald Knuth and Steve Jobs because of their genitalia is absurd. Those men have actually done things and it is those things that we might choose to admire.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#204

Post by olingern »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #190
tyleraldrich wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The comment is essentially saying that if I do great things and become a role model then I'm not welcome because we already have plenty that "look like me". The comment isn't about you at all. The OP said we need more role models like Grace Hopper and less like Jobs, Woz, etc. Reading this as "White men should stop aspiring to become future role models" is silly, it's about a desire to increase the diversity of tec…

Come on. If the post wasn't about that then why does it specifically call out four male role models? It could have just left it at Grace Hopper, but no. The post contains more negative than positive by far.

Since the thread is more akin to a trash fire than something of substance, perhaps, I can offer some insight into my comment.

My comment is merely a nod to the notion that I believe we're missing out on brilliant minds that could shape our future. Brilliance and genius aren't confined to a race or gender. This is nothing about being white, and it's not about diversity for diversity's sake. It's more about progress.

We've all benefitted from the aforementioned greats and their contributions. I do, however, think there are some rocks unturned and I'd like to see them given a chance.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#205

Post by annabellish »

doorbumper wrote: post #202
annabellish wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that when _anyone_ thinks about role models in computer science and programming, all of the options fit into a pretty small niche. It _is_ relevant to have those examples, because there's a world of difference between nobody having any role models at all, and every role model being from one group. Think about how much the existence of these role models obviously matters to you, and realise that nobody wa…

Those four role models don't look like me, and I think they're all awful examples of people someone should look up to. But you need to acknowledge both sides. Stop being so stubborn and look at it objectively. We do need more diversity in role models, however by saying you want less of the current role models you are initiating a direct attack. It's tricky business either way. But perhaps it would be better to say th…

>We do need more diversity in role models, however by saying you want less of the current role models you are initiating a direct attack.

Literally nobody is saying this. If people are reading "we should have more role models who aren't men" as "we should have fewer male role models" then that is _their_ problem, not a legitimate point which needs to be debated.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#206

Post by cup-of-tea »

annabellish wrote: post #205
doorbumper wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those four role models don't look like me, and I think they're all awful examples of people someone should look up to. But you need to acknowledge both sides. Stop being so stubborn and look at it objectively. We do need more diversity in role models, however by saying you want less of the current role models you are initiating a direct attack. It's tricky business either way. But perhaps it would be better to say th…

>We do need more diversity in role models, however by saying you want less of the current role models you are initiating a direct attack. Literally nobody is saying this. If people are reading "we should have more role models who aren't men" as "we should have fewer male role models" then that is _their_ problem, not a legitimate point which needs to be debated.

Did you even read the post? It says he wants more Grace Hopper rather than more male role models. It's an absurd and offensive thing to say but unfortunately one which will be cheered in many echo chambers.

Practically speaking, how can anyone make more role models that satisfy some arbitrary appearance standard? The implication is that we have those role models because of their appearance and reject equally deserving ones of other appearances. Again that's absurd and offensive.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#207

Post by annabellish »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #206
annabellish wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We do need more diversity in role models, however by saying you want less of the current role models you are initiating a direct attack. Literally nobody is saying this. If people are reading "we should have more role models who aren't men" as "we should have fewer male role models" then that is _their_ problem, not a legitimate point which needs to be debated.

Did you even read the post? It says he wants more Grace Hopper rather than more male role models. It's an absurd and offensive thing to say but unfortunately one which will be cheered in many echo chambers. Practically speaking, how can anyone make more role models that satisfy some arbitrary appearance standard? The implication is that we have those role models because of their appearance and reject equally deservin…

"I'd rather have more X" != "I want less Y". This is not a zero sum game.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#208

Post by ommunist »

Not many of you looked what exactly that Hinadan game is. It is all about Japanese rituals and conservative tradition and history. What is fascinating, is that Wakamiya-san exhibits the great value of accumulated experience, by making Hinadan game. This value is almost completely neglected in the modern Western society with its cults of the "new shiny thing" and "the next big thing".

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#210

Post by marcstreeter »

annabellish wrote: post #207
cup-of-tea wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the post? It says he wants more Grace Hopper rather than more male role models. It's an absurd and offensive thing to say but unfortunately one which will be cheered in many echo chambers. Practically speaking, how can anyone make more role models that satisfy some arbitrary appearance standard? The implication is that we have those role models because of their appearance and reject equally deservin…

"I'd rather have more X" != "I want less Y". This is not a zero sum game.

... why does X need role model X? Can't an X have role model Y? Why wait for there to be role model anything. Those who want to come in, come in!
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