Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today • Hacker News Board

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#281

Post by salvar » Wed, May 23, 2018, 12:55 PM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #212

gerhams wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like you don't own a passport and just repeat fearmongering you hear on the news Please get a passport, visit Europe, and then have an informed opinion. I can't speak personally for the eastern or southern states but here in central europe things are quite peachy. The central/west/northern parts of Europe are the most stable in the world, I doubt that will change soon, regardless of what happens elsewhere.…

So you like your free travel and ability to work anywhere in the EU??? But beyond that what does the EU offer other than a lot of regulations that seem to be hurting a lot of smaller countries?

But beyond free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour... what has the EU ever done for us???

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#282

Post by bertil » Wed, May 23, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

makapuf wrote: post #189

CapacitorSet wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Facebook monopoly any worse than having multiple actors in the data collection field? If anything, having more competitors would push each to be more cunning in their collection and retention of data, to appear more valuable to stakeholders. One evil is better than two.

Or having more competitors would push them to ask for data portability and thus transparency.

Data portability (and careless, incentivised users) is what started the Cambridge Analytica scandal.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#283

Post by repolfx » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:03 PM UTC

jonathanstrange wrote: post #143

repolfx wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both. Verhofstadt is a full-blown European federalist (people who want Europe to be united under a single government and single flag). The fortunes of that dream have not been good lately, and he's looking for people to blame that aren't people like himself. I find it pathetic. Verhofstadt and people like him are one of the things that turned me off the EU and turned me into a Brexit voter. They routinely descri…

Well, I'm also a full-blown federalist, although I understand very well why people don't like the idea. I'm still hoping to be able to hold a genuine European passport in my hand that states "European" as nationality and "German" as mother tongue. Here is the main reason why I favour a genuine union with a partially joint military, a strengthened power for the European Parliament, and less power for appointed commiss…

Yet many people obviously disagree.

I don't think the EU is a recipe for peace or is making Europe more peaceful. Far from it. The EU looks a lot like a bunch of very unhappy neighbours kept in line by the threat of wildly over the top retaliation from the federalist core if they even think about stepping out of line.

Look at Brexit. The EU is talking about grounding all flights, banning British firms, insisting on obedience, suggesting that the UK be split up to convenience them and demanding huge ransom payments (and don't argue with me about this, these are my perceptions). Then you look at eastern Europe, Catalonia and so on.

I do not perceive the EU as a happy peaceful entity. If it looks peaceful it's only in the sense that a successfully dominated population doesn't fight back. True peace comes from understanding, collaboration and compromise. The EU sucks at all three.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#284

Post by repolfx » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:05 PM UTC

LloydPickering wrote: post #173

repolfx wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Corbyn has been taking a beating because of what he's ignoring. At this point in the electoral cycle Labour should be well ahead of the Conservatives. They should have cleaned up in the last round of council elections. Neither happened, and it's partly because Corbyn is seen as ignoring those sorts of things. Meanwhile the current government isn't ignoring the economic impact. So far there has been none - the e…

The Governor of the Bank of England disagrees with you that there has not been an economic impact yet. His estimates are that we have lost possibly as much as 2% of GDP as a result of the vote. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44207677 I'd also point out that last year in the first 3Qs the UK grew its economy, true, but at by far the slowest rate of any of the G7 countries indicating we are lagging behind. Not all…

And I say he's wrong.

BoE and the profession of economics in general has a long history of failure to make correct economic predictions. Carney in particular has a catastrophically bad track record of predictions with respect to Brexit and has been publicly and repeatedly slated for it.

He can pull some figures out of the air to claim that the UK has "lost" economic performance compared to some model he won't reveal, if he likes. Those of us who understand the limitations of macroeconomics will roll our eyes and ignore his biased pseudo-intellectual nonsense.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#285

Post by ribchinski » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:10 PM UTC

In every one of the interviews that I have seen, he is cherry picking answers. He never directly answers them and purposefully makes broad statements that cannot be actually proved. This man created the biggest social media to date, which I thankfully do not use, which spies on its own customers, censors anyone who does not agree with the company's political views and sells personal data to anyone who can make a high bid. I wouldn't be surprised if Putin asked him to compile a list of all of the Russian people who talk poorly of him and Zuck just gave that list to him for a quick buck.

EDIT: I also love how he orders the court to stop and then "[He] seemed most uncomfortable at not having his orders instantly carried out."

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#286

Post by empath75 » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #212

gerhams wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like you don't own a passport and just repeat fearmongering you hear on the news Please get a passport, visit Europe, and then have an informed opinion. I can't speak personally for the eastern or southern states but here in central europe things are quite peachy. The central/west/northern parts of Europe are the most stable in the world, I doubt that will change soon, regardless of what happens elsewhere.…

So you like your free travel and ability to work anywhere in the EU??? But beyond that what does the EU offer other than a lot of regulations that seem to be hurting a lot of smaller countries?

That and the fact that Germany, France and England having the longest uninterrupted peace between them since the battle of Hastings.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#287

Post by forgottenpass » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:12 PM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #222

Roritharr wrote: post #86

What struck me as quite interesting was Guy Verhofstadts sideremarks. >"You have to ask yourself how you will be remembered," he said. "As one of the three big internet giants together with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, who have enriched our world and our societies, or on the other hand, the genius that created a digital monster that is destroying our democracies and societies." I imagine you have to talk like this to a…

> "destroying our democracy and societies" Imagine how you have to talk to a doomsayer like that knowing no matter what you say, there will be no chance to get through to him.

There's a good chance you could get though to him just fine. It takes two to tango in an arms race between platitudes and hysterics.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#288

Post by Rattled » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #251

Drakim wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? The same could be said for Americans speaking an European language.

I just mean with Brexit and all ... if the English leave, English will be deprecated as an official language, yet it will still be the lingua franca of European Business. It's just a kind of a funny, and slightly ironic situation I think. EDIT: I think actually it speaks very much to how european unity is about so much more than just the EU. By extension how culture and national identity is about so much more than wh…

It is ironic, but there are still a couple of member states that rely on English. I think it's unlikely to be deprecated. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_of_Brexit_on_the_Euro...

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#289

Post by VonGallifrey » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:14 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #261

icebraining wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In the EU, personal information cannot be conceived as a mere economic asset: according to the case law of the European Court of Human Rights, the processing of personal data requires protection to ensure a person's enjoyment of the right to respect for private life and freedom of expression and association". https://edps.europa.eu/sites/edp/files/publication/16-09-23_...

Which is another way of saying that people in the EU do not have the right of ownership over their own lives or property, including their data - that the State owns it and dictates what may be done with it. Terrifying. It's funny though, to watch everyone talk about how people should own their data in these threads. And there's the EU proclaiming plainly that you in fact do not own your data and may not do with it as…

How did you get that impression. When I read this I get a completely different meaning from it. The State does not own my live or property and they are also not dictating what I can do with it. They are dictating that no one else can do what they want with MY live, property or data without my explicit consent. The state can not give consent to my data: only I can.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#290

Post by PeterisP » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #264

PeterisP wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 25% of Facebook's worldwide revenue comes from EU. Taking your ball and going home means leaving a lot of money on the table. A purely US-based internet company is required to fully comply with EU laws if they want to see a single (euro)cent from customers in EU, otherwise all that money can and will be seized.

Facebook can trivially afford to end all business in the EU as needed. Very little of their business growth is in the EU, and that will go for future growth as well. Courtesy of the changes to US corporate tax law, Facebook also has no need to store large sums of foreign profit overseas eg in Ireland or similar (where the EU can reach it). They're one of the most profitable large corporations in world history in term…

It depends on what you mean by "can trivially afford".

If you take it as "will they survive if they do that", then yes, it's true for the reasons you describe.

If you take it as "will they consider that as a plausible option worth discussing" the answer is hell no, it would be laughed at in their board room and not even given a serious thought.

Giving up $4 or $5 billion (actually, FB European revenue was 10+ billion in 2017; giving up EU would lose all the revenue but not decrease the costs proportionally, but not that the number matters) of that is much more than a dire problem, it's a taboo situation - they'll survive if it magically happens, but nobody would even dare to be seen allowing it happen or not doing their utmost to prevent it. Even if there's absolutely no way around it, they'll go down screaming and do pretty much everything possible and impossible to avoid giving up that much money.