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In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

ericasadun.com

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Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#81

Post by developer2 »

Nition wrote: post #66
gambiting wrote: post #24

Tbf - I feel really sorry that this happened to him, but on the other hand, I am extremely glad that a once-locked device can never be unlocked by anyone without a purchase receipt. I'm sure it deters the theft of iPhones/iPads at least a bit if they know the device will become completely useless once locked out.

Even if they know the username and password though? A thief shouldn't know your username and password, and if I have the username and password to a device, I expect to be able to get in.

I believe the OP uses the word "password" incorrectly; they're talking about the device passcode. The details provided in the post indicate they do not know the Apple ID's password, and are unable to perform account recovery (ie: password reset) which requires answers to security questions and/or access to the email address's inbox.

Edit: Another comment chain noted that the OP says the Apple ID was locked as well. It's possible they did know the account's password, but it looks like certain situations may require one to perform account recovery to unlock an account[1].

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204106

Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#82

Post by lathiat »

cannam wrote: post #51
madeofpalk wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There certainly is. Don't enable the PIN code. Security, almost by definition, makes the user experience harder and worse.

Trouble is, a PIN code is useful as a very casual line of defence (threat model: your brother picking up the device and messing with your stuff). It's terrible that the obvious means to avoid that threat is also something that could lose you access to your device entirely.

That's actually not the case, the PIN doesn't lock out your iOS device. iCloud Activation Lock does.

It requires that if you factory reset the device (without first disabling icloud activation lock), you must authenticate with the same iCloud account it was previously using to "unlock" it.

This is designed precisely to make stolen iOS devices (and logic boards) worthless.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201365

Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#83

Post by dbaupp »

madaxe_again wrote: post #7

Not forever, looking at the screenshot - “just” 45 years. I hope he gets this resolved - otherwise his daughter will have one hell of a digital time capsule to open in her late 50’s - assuming apple or anything else still exists.

I don't think the author, Erica, uses "he".

Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#84

Post by matthewmacleod »

Gupie wrote: post #80
matthewmacleod wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it _is_ a poor product decision though. There are a large number of hurdles between "I have a functioning device" and "I can no longer use my device". Passcodes, password resets, account ownership claims, device ownership claims. There's an extensive path of steps to follow which allow a legitimate user to regain access. In this situation we have: - Someone who has disabled their access, probably through…

Couldn't Apple make it be standard to provide a name and address when buying such a product? You could then for example take ti to your local apple store with some ID to get it unlocked.

And then you sell it to someone else (as happened in this case) and don't update the record, and suddenly you're locked out again.

But it's possible that there are specific lessons to learn here, so it's always worth examining failure cases!

Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#85

Post by Spare_account »

gempir wrote: post #48
gaius wrote: post #36

she made up a birthday and answers to the security questions. 8 years later, she does not know that information and there’s no way for us to guess it. Well that sucks, but the vendor did provide an account recovery mechanism which they chose to circumvent.

I feel like Apple did nothing wrong here. If they parent/daughter chose to go around every recovery mechanism Apple provided it's their own fault. Physical possesion of a device should never equal direct access to all its data.

> Physical possesion of a device should never equal direct access to all its data.

Apple appear to have extended this principle beyond the data and are preventing use of the device entirely. It ought to be possible to wipe the device and start from scratch with a new Apple account.

Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#86

Post by ghaff »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #72
falsedan wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame the user for poor product decisions.

I'm not sure it _is_ a poor product decision though. There are a large number of hurdles between "I have a functioning device" and "I can no longer use my device". Passcodes, password resets, account ownership claims, device ownership claims. There's an extensive path of steps to follow which allow a legitimate user to regain access. In this situation we have: - Someone who has disabled their access, probably through…

Make it easy to regain access to a device under these sorts of circumstances and, instead of this story, you have one about how a thief was able to gain access to my stolen device even though they had almost none of the information they should have needed.

The more forgiving you are the more exposed you are to social engineering and other attempts to work around security systems.

Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#87

Post by jasonkostempski »

gambiting wrote: post #24

Tbf - I feel really sorry that this happened to him, but on the other hand, I am extremely glad that a once-locked device can never be unlocked by anyone without a purchase receipt. I'm sure it deters the theft of iPhones/iPads at least a bit if they know the device will become completely useless once locked out.

Can't the device be reset another way? Im sure most phone theft is to sell hardware, not get data.

Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#88

Post by pdkl95 »

cannam wrote: post #22

Oh, this is a painful topic. A couple of years ago my son forgot the (3-digit!) PIN for his iPod touch. He tried various possibilities, with the device responding with increasingly long lockouts between attempts, until it locked him out permanently. I'm not an iOS user and I had no idea it would do that. I am still angry that it did. It wasn't associated with a Mac, so we couldn't unlock it that way. He eventually sh…

> forgot the ... PIN

Schneier on passwords[1]:

>> Simply, people can no longer remember passwords good enough to reliably defend against dictionary attacks, and are much more secure if they choose a password too complicated to remember and then write it down. We're all good at securing small pieces of paper. I recommend that people write their passwords down on a small piece of paper, and keep it with their other valuable small pieces of paper: in their wallet.

Maybe not the wallet for a portable device's PIN; the wallet could easily be included with the theft of the phone/pad/portable. However, it's still a good idea to write down passwords (and maybe print out your private key in an OCR-friendly font) and store them in the fire-safe or safe deposit box or whatever you probably already use for important documents.

[1] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_yo...

Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#89

Post by Spare_account »

developer2 wrote: post #50

> She did not do anything to trigger the Apple ID issue. I chalk this up to the child not wanting to admit they entered the wrong passcode too many times. iOS devices "disable" themselves after enough failed attempts. This is a good thing - you want this to happen if your device is stolen. "Disabled" only means you need to prove ownership by either: a) Connecting the iPad (via USB) to iTunes on a Mac or PC that is lo…

You appear to know what you're talking about, but I don't think you've factored this part into your theory:

> The other day, Apple locked her out of her iCloud account and her iPad. We don’t know why. The Apple support people don’t know why. I think it may have to do with when I modernized my AppleID to use an email address, which is what the iTunes account on the iPad is registered to.

I think you're implying that Erica (the OP) needs to use iTunes linked to her own Apple ID to recover this device?

And that the daughter's Apple ID may not be needed at all here?

Re: In which Apple destroys my daughter’s iPad forever

#90

Post by Gupie »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #84
Gupie wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't Apple make it be standard to provide a name and address when buying such a product? You could then for example take ti to your local apple store with some ID to get it unlocked.

And then you sell it to someone else (as happened in this case) and don't update the record, and suddenly you're locked out again. But it's possible that there are specific lessons to learn here, so it's always worth examining failure cases!

That's true, the article was unreachable so I had only read these comments. But what I don't understand is why her iCloud account was locked.
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