Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today • Hacker News Board

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#161

Post by sparkling » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:20 AM UTC

mns wrote: post #101

sparkling wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Destroying democracies"? Oh please. Im pretty sure the fall of the EU has little to do with Facebook. Maybe these EU officials should look at their own parlament for blame for once. Perhaps stop robbing your people by artificially devaluing your currency, stop the influx of illegal refugees into the welfare states, stop passing silly laws regulating the form of cucumbers etc. - i could go on and on.

I thought we are on hackernews here, and not some bullshit propaganda spreading site. Can you provide a documented example of devaluing your currency? Can you provide the number of illegal refugees that came to welfare states (can you name those welfare states?), regulating the form of cucumbers? Who are you, Nigel Farage? https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/straight-cucumbers/

> Can you provide a documented example of devaluing your currency

1. The european central bank (ECB) is buying goverment bonds from EU member states to keep them alive.

2. Since 2010 the ECB is printing more currency than ever, effectively devaluating the currency.

> regulating the form of cucumbers?

Here you go: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:319...

Do your research before accusing me.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#162

Post by xiphias » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:20 AM UTC

pmden wrote: post #145

gambiting wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Im pretty sure the fall of the EU has little to do with Facebook Wait, what? EU is doing better than ever and it looks like after Brexit we will enjoy greater integration, and hopefully a full financial and political union in the future. If this is what a "fall" looks like to you, then I don't really know what to say to you - but from the rest of your sentence it seems like you don't like EU as an institution, so I…

I'm sure Italy and Hungary are excited about 'greater integration' too - they've certainly expressed that desire in their recent elections. I'd say 'fall' is the wrong word, but the European Union is not in a particularly healthy state right now. One large member leaving, one founding member making potentially illegal demands after electing populists, another three being sued for refusing to follow rules on migrants.…

I can't speak for Italy, but as one of the hundreds of thousands of Hungarians who could easily get a job outside Hungary _because_ of Hungary joining the EU, I'm deeply thankful for the fact that EU is trying to control the damage that Orban Viktor is doing to the country.

As for the elections: Orban used lots of tools (cheating) to make sure that they win again. Migrants/illegal border crossers are not a problem here at this time here actually (they prefer Germany with a better economy).

Most of us Hungarians want to stay in the EU, but we have a dictator who would prefer to be outside if the money stops flowing from EU to them.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#163

Post by akie » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:21 AM UTC

tingol wrote: post #140

fvdessen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the EU is doing better than ever on some metrics, but I find it quite scary how over the last 20 years, Europe has completely missed the train on technology. We are now in a vassal position where we have to beg foreign CEOs to have some sort of view / control over the technology that runs our society. And it's not getting any better. GDPR is too little too late, and may even be counterproductive[1]. It would ha…

But there's no way to way to fight back for Europe unless EU countries get even more homogeneous laws concerning running a multi-national (basically any online) business. It's easy in the US because they have a large, wealthy and boundary free market with almost no access cost beyond marketing.

Also, they all speak the same language. That's huge.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#164

Post by icebraining » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

sparkling wrote: post #152

matlock wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should really do your research before saying things like "stop passing silly laws regulating the form of cucumbers" https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/straight-cucumbers/ This was to make it clearer across all Markets what products you buy to make a single market easier on everyone. This is just FUD that really shouldn't be part of this conversation.

It's not FUD, its not a myth, its real: Commission Regulation (EEC) No 1677/88 of 15 June 1988 laying down quality standards for cucumbers [1] Yes i know this regulation is no longer in place, thats not the point. The point is that the EU is a overblown bureaucracy that should not be in charge of regulating every silly little aspect of life across the various member states. And yes, they are STILL passing laws like t…

All that law does is standardize various classes. It's a extremely common measure for facilitating trade, e.g.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/grades-standards/cucumber-grades-an...

https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trade/agr/standard/fresh...

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#165

Post by rusk » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

fvdessen wrote: post #125

gambiting wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Im pretty sure the fall of the EU has little to do with Facebook Wait, what? EU is doing better than ever and it looks like after Brexit we will enjoy greater integration, and hopefully a full financial and political union in the future. If this is what a "fall" looks like to you, then I don't really know what to say to you - but from the rest of your sentence it seems like you don't like EU as an institution, so I…

Maybe the EU is doing better than ever on some metrics, but I find it quite scary how over the last 20 years, Europe has completely missed the train on technology. We are now in a vassal position where we have to beg foreign CEOs to have some sort of view / control over the technology that runs our society. And it's not getting any better. GDPR is too little too late, and may even be counterproductive[1]. It would ha…

Missed the train? Maybe didn't fully participate in the dot-com boom or the startup-buzz, but that's not the full picture with regards to technology. The world wide web came from CERN. ARM which powers most popular mobile devices was founded in the UK (only bought by a Japanse company post-Brexit). German cars are everywhere. Nokia and Ericsson were at the forefront of the boom in mobile telecommunications. ITU is based in Geneva and GSM (the basis for all modern mobile telecomms) orginated in France (it took years for the USA to catch up).

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#166

Post by raverbashing » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

repolfx wrote: post #121

raverbashing wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're not wrong in spirit, it seems the current UK government (and its opposition) also downplay the major concerns of people. And I do agree with some of the concerns. (See Corbyn downplaying grooming gangs, antisemitism, etc and see the current gov ignoring the economic impact of Brexit)

Well, Corbyn has been taking a beating because of what he's ignoring. At this point in the electoral cycle Labour should be well ahead of the Conservatives. They should have cleaned up in the last round of council elections. Neither happened, and it's partly because Corbyn is seen as ignoring those sorts of things. Meanwhile the current government isn't ignoring the economic impact. So far there has been none - the e…

> when the EU inevitably tries to block UK companies and trade

FTFY

> when the EU uses border/customs rules for countries they don't have an agreement with

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#167

Post by sparkling » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

gerhams wrote: post #156

sparkling wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying the EU is doing "better than ever" but yet, in every recent national election in the EU we have seen massive wins for anti-EU parties and movements? Just to name a few: Czech Republic, Italy, Poland, Hungary, France. Add to that a failing currency, massive debt in the southern EU member states, the next banking crisis ready to come. Do you believe that it is a sustainable model to have Germany guara…

You sound like you don't own a passport and just repeat fearmongering you hear on the news Please get a passport, visit Europe, and then have an informed opinion. I can't speak personally for the eastern or southern states but here in central europe things are quite peachy. The central/west/northern parts of Europe are the most stable in the world, I doubt that will change soon, regardless of what happens elsewhere.…

Thank you for your concern: i have a passport and i have visited every EU member state with the exception of Romania and Sweden.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#168

Post by bambataa » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

adam-_- wrote: post #77

phicoh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just my impression: if this was Google, then yes. It is very hard to replace Google at this point in time. Facebook is on its way out. Due to the network effect, Facebook will stay relevant for a long time. But if Facebook would leave the EU then it wouldn't take long for other social networks to take its place. Facebook is relevant because everybody is on Facebook. Not because it is such a great service. Personally,…

That network effect can't be underestimated. In the olden days of a new social network every other week the percentage of my friends and family on each social network (including Myspace, the most dominant) was relatively low, so the pain of switching was low. Now the percentage on Facebook is extremely high and I don't even know what an alternative would be. Lots of friends and family are on Whatsapp, quite a lot of…

Do the people you know actually engage with Facebook a lot, though?

I'm still on it and log in a few times a week but I engage far less. I recently used a Chrome extension to delete my old comments and I'm surprised at how much more I posted on it (and publicly, too). Although changing the newsfeed to be mostly memes and adverts was one cause of my disengagement, I think it's also just changing use. I haven't really noticed the recent changes Facebook touted because my friend network simply seems to engage with it less. Maybe a few people still insist on posting dozens of photographs of every trip they take, but I see so much less public discussion and so on.

What happens to a social network when the 'social' bit tails off?

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#169

Post by gepi79 » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:25 AM UTC

repolfx wrote: post #94

flukus wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that was a reference to the US election interference, not the EU.

It's both. Verhofstadt is a full-blown European federalist (people who want Europe to be united under a single government and single flag). The fortunes of that dream have not been good lately, and he's looking for people to blame that aren't people like himself. I find it pathetic. Verhofstadt and people like him are one of the things that turned me off the EU and turned me into a Brexit voter. They routinely descri…

I am in favor of a united democratic European government and a united democratic world government in order to increase cooperation and to enable political innovation (e.g. a basic income, a job guarantee) and to decrease competition and wars and poverty worldwide.

But many politicians of the European elite and European national elites live in a fantasy world where privatization, austerity, competition, unconditional support of the USA and Israel, wars, bombs, islamic rebels, sanctions and brazen lies and propaganda against Russia (e.g. Skripal, panama papers, referendum in Crimea) and Syria (after Libya after Iraq after Yugoslavia after Iraq after ...) create peace, democracy, friendship and prosperity.

I was pleasantly surprised that aggressions against Iran were even a topic among politicians and in the mainstream media in Europe instead of just following the USA and Israel and Saudi Arabia into the next disastrous conflict. But this reluctance has more to do with business than with morality and wisdom.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#170

Post by rusk » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:25 AM UTC

rusk wrote: post #151

askmike wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'fraud' and 'illegal' might be problematic words here. The tax evasion schemes used by large corporations are often considered exploits of loopholes - i.e. technically legal. In your example on Apple this is not clear at all: there are two legal systems at play (the Irish one and the EU one). Apple is only playing by the rules of the Irish one. The problem comes from the EU saying that the Irish laws are not within…

Wrong. Ireland's competition rules are harmonised with EU rules. Not by dictat either, it's a condition of signing the various European treaties that you will implement particular laws that conform to certain principles. In this particular case Ireland had broken her own laws on competition. Like with so much of the skullduggery that goes on in Ireland, it took an outside agency to blow the whistle.

it's a condition of signing the various European treaties

These treaties by the way, are passed with popular consent. As a constitutional democracy Ireland requires a Referendum for any constitutional change, which is always necessary when signing up to anything that says we'll conform to some outside agency.