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Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

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Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#81

Post by jdietrich »

dragonwriter wrote: post #48
robin_reala wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring consent as a pre-condition of a service is frowned upon under GDPR. If you have a legitimate requirement (which is fairly rigidly defined under GDPR) or legal obligations for that data then you don’t need user consent, but if you don’t then you need to offer the service regardless of the user consent or not.

> Requiring consent as a pre-condition of a service is frowned upon under GDPR. No, it's not. Requiring extraneous consent as a precondition of service, that is, requiring consent for some processing as a precondition of provision of a service that does not depend on that processing is an indication that consent is coerced rather than freely given, and hence not effective consent, under the GDPR. But what that means…

Consent must be freely given, granular and revocable.

Consent is only one of the six grounds for lawful data processing. Consent is not always necessary, nor is it always sufficient.

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-6-gdpr/

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#82

Post by sparkling »

thebradbain wrote: post #79
sparkling wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shut down the EU company entities, move all operations back to the US. There is no need to show a warning message to its users, EU laws do not apply to US firms. Also, despite what EU lawmakers may say, a purely US-based internet company is not required to comply in any way with EU laws even if they have customers/visitors/users in the EU.

If that’s the case, why do any multinational tech companies have entities outside of their home country? There has to be something that allows them to access banking and finance in each country, no?

Convenience, processing payments in local currencies, making use of tax loopholes.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#83

Post by Sharlin »

Tharkun wrote: post #18
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're not allowed to say usage of an application/service is conditional on accepting data collection.

I still don't see why not. Maybe it's what GDPR says, but it's wrong and I can't see this being enforced. If data collection is the "payment" for using the "service", you have two choices: you don't pay and don't use the service, or you pay up. This is like saying a business can't make usage of a service conditional to payment.

Not all contracts are legal, not in any jurisdiction. The EU has taken the viewpoint that privacy is such a fundamental thing that you cannot be expected to forfeit it without limitation as a ”payment” for a service.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#84

Post by robin_reala »

kennell wrote: post #61
Drakim wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think GDPR is flawless, but at some point if we don't do anything, privacy violations are going to become so common place and so entrenched in the online economy that we can't fix it anymore. At that point, the discussion would be all about all the "jobs we would destroy" and "businesses opportunities we would shut down!", and heavy lobbying would make sure it gets nowhere.

Do you think that the GDPR has really changed anything for either Facebook or its users? Do you think that anything changed in the way data is being handled? All i see is a bunch of highly paid law firms writing up 200 additional pages in terms and conditions to shield the company, but nothing really changed as far as daily business is concerned.

Two hundred extra pages of new privacy info in the T&Cs would fail GDPR:

The information you provide to people must be concise, transparent, intelligible, easily accessible, and it must use clear and plain language.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#85

Post by icebraining »

kennell wrote: post #61
Drakim wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think GDPR is flawless, but at some point if we don't do anything, privacy violations are going to become so common place and so entrenched in the online economy that we can't fix it anymore. At that point, the discussion would be all about all the "jobs we would destroy" and "businesses opportunities we would shut down!", and heavy lobbying would make sure it gets nowhere.

Do you think that the GDPR has really changed anything for either Facebook or its users? Do you think that anything changed in the way data is being handled? All i see is a bunch of highly paid law firms writing up 200 additional pages in terms and conditions to shield the company, but nothing really changed as far as daily business is concerned.

Not yet, it'll take a few lawsuits. See the work of Max Schrems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems

https://www.fbclaim.com

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#86

Post by Roritharr »

What struck me as quite interesting was Guy Verhofstadts sideremarks.

>"You have to ask yourself how you will be remembered," he said. "As one of the three big internet giants together with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, who have enriched our world and our societies, or on the other hand, the genius that created a digital monster that is destroying our democracies and societies."

I imagine you have to talk like this to a guy like Zuckerberg to actually have a chance to get through to him.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#88

Post by zaarn »

amarkov wrote: post #72
thebradbain wrote: post #55

If worst comes to worst and EU tries to break up Facebook — and it seems likely they might — what would be Facebook’s best path forward? Theoretically, would it send a stronger signal to US regulators if Facebook simply shut down all operation in the EU? A pop up message to all EU citizens along the lines of “You may no longer access Facebook from within the EU due to X Y and Z from your government. As such, all of y…

I imagine US regulators would be on Facebook's side there. The US can't really tolerate a world where the EU purports to reach inside American borders and forcibly reorganize American companies.

The US regulators didn't seem to mind when the EU complained about IE...

When you do business in a country or union be prepared that they will enact their law on you.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#89

Post by sparkling »

Roritharr wrote: post #86

What struck me as quite interesting was Guy Verhofstadts sideremarks. >"You have to ask yourself how you will be remembered," he said. "As one of the three big internet giants together with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, who have enriched our world and our societies, or on the other hand, the genius that created a digital monster that is destroying our democracies and societies." I imagine you have to talk like this to a…

"Destroying democracies"? Oh please.

Im pretty sure the fall of the EU has little to do with Facebook. Maybe these EU officials should look at their own parlament for blame for once. Perhaps stop robbing your people by artificially devaluing your currency, stop the influx of illegal refugees into the welfare states, stop passing silly laws regulating the form of cucumbers etc. - i could go on and on.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#90

Post by thebradbain »

amarkov wrote: post #72
thebradbain wrote: post #55

If worst comes to worst and EU tries to break up Facebook — and it seems likely they might — what would be Facebook’s best path forward? Theoretically, would it send a stronger signal to US regulators if Facebook simply shut down all operation in the EU? A pop up message to all EU citizens along the lines of “You may no longer access Facebook from within the EU due to X Y and Z from your government. As such, all of y…

I imagine US regulators would be on Facebook's side there. The US can't really tolerate a world where the EU purports to reach inside American borders and forcibly reorganize American companies.

Normally I’d agree with you, but my personal opinion is that this current administration seems to only help those it personally approves of (extending an olive branch to China and ZTE, coal miners, steel mills, middle America...) and root for the demise of those it doesn’t (Amazon/Bezos, any major newspaper, net neutrality, tech in general...)
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