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Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

politico.eu

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Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#81

Post by zerostar07 »

ianai wrote: post #77
zerostar07 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah but that's not a break-up

So they declare ownership over all FB assets in their nation and the data of their citizens. Really though, I think maybe the act of combining data to form contiguous blocks of PII tied to online personas may need to be made illegal outside of some official, state database. Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information. So you simply may not have access to certain PII.

> Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information

thats a tad dystopian don't you think?

Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#82

Post by jesseendahl »

mantas wrote: post #26
jedberg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all has to do with education. Educated people are naturally more skeptical of their media and what the sources are. Before social media, it was admitted a lot harder for unreliable sources to get an audience, so that skepticism was less critical. But I think it will come back. Education is the antidote to social media news. Deity willing, the next government will see that and push for better education.

At the same time education is encouraging people to not trust the mainstream. There's a lot of reasons for that, thanks to tabloids and seemingly credible papers going bananas once in a while. So educated people do their own research. Which sometimes goes wrong. For example, a lot of conspiracy theorists are educated people. Their research just took an interesting turn at one point or another. @bachbach's example of…

Truly effective education involves teaching people how to do their research in a way that stresses objectivity and apply a high degree of scrutiny to any argument. It gives people a toolkit for critical thinking, and how to assess the quality of one argument against another. We don't just need education, we education that places a renewed emphasis on critical thinking skills.

This is an interesting article on this topic:

http://www.apa.org/ed/precollege/ptn/2017/05/fake-news.aspx

Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#83

Post by repolfx »

pyrale wrote: post #60
repolfx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Escaping it where - apparently not in the EU, although it's unclear what monopolies they actually have. In America they've escaped anti-trust attention because it's hard to prove any consumers have been harmed by their activities.

Well, maybe the EU will prove that such things are easier to see if you actually take a look.

They definitely won't because EU competition law doesn't care about whether there was harm to consumers or not. It's based on different principles to American law, arguably worse ones (harm to competitors, which is sort of the point of competition to begin with).

Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#84

Post by vntok »

zerostar07 wrote: post #81
ianai wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they declare ownership over all FB assets in their nation and the data of their citizens. Really though, I think maybe the act of combining data to form contiguous blocks of PII tied to online personas may need to be made illegal outside of some official, state database. Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information. So you simply may not have access to certain PII.

> Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information thats a tad dystopian don't you think?

Governments are accountable to their people. Companies are accountable to their shareholders.

Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#85

Post by vntok »

repolfx wrote: post #83
pyrale wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe the EU will prove that such things are easier to see if you actually take a look.

They definitely won't because EU competition law doesn't care about whether there was harm to consumers or not. It's based on different principles to American law, arguably worse ones (harm to competitors, which is sort of the point of competition to begin with).

You may build a faster car engine than your competitor's so that your team can visit and close more prospects per day. You may not blow up the tires of your competitor's car so the other team cannot visit anyone.

Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#86

Post by zerostar07 »

vntok wrote: post #84
zerostar07 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information thats a tad dystopian don't you think?

Governments are accountable to their people. Companies are accountable to their shareholders.

some are

Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#87

Post by mantas »

jesseendahl wrote: post #82
mantas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time education is encouraging people to not trust the mainstream. There's a lot of reasons for that, thanks to tabloids and seemingly credible papers going bananas once in a while. So educated people do their own research. Which sometimes goes wrong. For example, a lot of conspiracy theorists are educated people. Their research just took an interesting turn at one point or another. @bachbach's example of…

Truly effective education involves teaching people how to do their research in a way that stresses objectivity and apply a high degree of scrutiny to any argument. It gives people a toolkit for critical thinking, and how to assess the quality of one argument against another. We don't just need education, we education that places a renewed emphasis on critical thinking skills. This is an interesting article on this to…

Yup. But some people think that education would make people flock back to mainstream media and listening to talking heads. Which is not going to happen. And that's good.

Once you start evaluating arguments and doing your own research, a lot of difference opinions emerge. Which sometimes are labeled as fake news, even though they're not truly fake. If everyone did assess all news, most crazy fake news would be gone. Which is awesome. But many of non-mainstream opinions that technically are not fake would survive. Which is good too in my books, but some people wouldn't agree.

Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#88

Post by repolfx »

vntok wrote: post #85
repolfx wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely won't because EU competition law doesn't care about whether there was harm to consumers or not. It's based on different principles to American law, arguably worse ones (harm to competitors, which is sort of the point of competition to begin with).

You may build a faster car engine than your competitor's so that your team can visit and close more prospects per day. You may not blow up the tires of your competitor's car so the other team cannot visit anyone.

Blowing up tires is physical damage and does not require any specific anti-trust laws.

That's the problem with metaphors - sometimes they obscure the reality of things. Anti-trust covers much vaguer and more debatable 'crimes'. For instance Microsoft was rapped over bundling Internet Explorer although every OS comes with a web browser these days and nobody considers it controversial anymore. The main crime was giving exclusivity discounts to customers, but that isn't specifically forbidden as far as I know. It's just an interpretation.

At any rate, the EU doesn't require even the slightest analogue to 'blowing up tires'. They went after Google Shopping although Google was providing search referral and advertising to their own competitors - actually helping them, not hindering them. The existence of other big product search engines like Amazon didn't help, the EU fined them anyway. I didn't believe before that EU anti-trust enforcement was based on the rule of law, and Verhofstadt appears to have confirmed it today.

Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#89

Post by dingaling »

schadom wrote: post #40
cft wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landing in Barcelona

some partying maybe

Don't draw too many conclusions from movements of that Citation XLS; I don't have the reg but it's probably a NetJets aircraft on hire.

Mr Zuckerberg's own private jet is a Gulfstream V which unlike the XLS is transatlantic capable.

Re: Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

#90

Post by ianai »

zerostar07 wrote: post #81
ianai wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they declare ownership over all FB assets in their nation and the data of their citizens. Really though, I think maybe the act of combining data to form contiguous blocks of PII tied to online personas may need to be made illegal outside of some official, state database. Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information. So you simply may not have access to certain PII.

> Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information thats a tad dystopian don't you think?

No, dystopian is the current situation.
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