40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense • Hacker News Board

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#221

Post by gizmo686 » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:13 AM UTC

dpark wrote: post #191

sigstoat wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

easier to get rid of lotteries; no constitutional amendment required. some of the beer spending also comes from people more able to tolerate the wasted funds; those with the least are the most likely to play lotteries. https://journalistsresource.org/studies/economics/personal-f...

I’m not sure that’s true. The Supreme Court just struck down an anti-gambling federal law. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/us/politics/supreme-co... It’s not clear at all that the federal government could ban the lottery without a constitutional change.

Here is the opinion: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-476_dbfi.pdf

The court found the law unconstitutional on procedural grounds. In particular, the federal government did not ban gambling. It required states to ban gambling. The court ruled that the federal government cannot force states to pass laws.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#222

Post by jabgrabdthrow » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:16 AM UTC

ryanx435 wrote: post #190

master-litty wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so childish putting optimistic people down. Our economy, habits, and mindset can change with a great deal of work and energy. People are becoming more connected than ever before, and with that we can build a new kind of social momentum. Hey, you're right, things suck now, but it doesn't have to be like this.

This is an even more childish comment. You think you can change how human nature fundamentally works? How naive. People are selfish and greedy. They always have been. They always will be. Any solution to a problem that relies on building "a new kind of social momentum" are ignorant at best and actively harmful at worst.

You sound like you’re trying to be edgy. Are Democracy and Polio Vaccines actively harmful?

Parent comment is right.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#223

Post by sigstoat » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

dpark wrote: post #191

sigstoat wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

easier to get rid of lotteries; no constitutional amendment required. some of the beer spending also comes from people more able to tolerate the wasted funds; those with the least are the most likely to play lotteries. https://journalistsresource.org/studies/economics/personal-f...

I’m not sure that’s true. The Supreme Court just struck down an anti-gambling federal law. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/us/politics/supreme-co... It’s not clear at all that the federal government could ban the lottery without a constitutional change.

that stricken law just banned states from permitting certain forms of gambling.

the states operate the lotteries themselves. they could just stop doing so.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#224

Post by jabgrabdthrow » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:20 AM UTC

pnj9 wrote: post #135

taysic wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this due to QE? edit: I am wondering about why the money supply has increased 50%. Wouldn't that require a massive printing of money?

It’s due to a long and storied history of elites manipulating the masses through intimidation and fear It went from overt violence to less obvious propaganda programs tuning our feelings I wish the “smart” crowd would look into the history of government-corporate propaganda research I’m not talking “deep state”. It’s plainly recorded in government record how they financed propaganda research and gifted it to media fo…

No, you are talking deep state (unelected “eternal beaurocracy”), they’ve just associated that term with crazies and racists like everything else that threatens them, so you’re scared to use it.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#225

Post by toofy » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:20 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #137

jadedhacker wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The piece you're missing is that none of this is a mistake, the entire economy is designed to do this. Apathy and hoping it'll get better will if anything make it worse (not that I'm implying that's your position). The only thing that will make it better is demanding that things change. This means mass unionization, strikes, worker owned businesses, protests, leftist politicians like Sanders and Corbyn, and a whole p…

>the entire economy is designed to do this Unless you are a firm believer in the power of the Illuminati, we have as close to the opposite of a planned (and thus designed) economy as one can get in the present day. Just because a behavior or other feature in a complex system is emergent doesn't mean the system was initially designed that way.

> we have as close to the opposite of a planned (and thus designed) economy as one can get in the present day.

I understand why this might seem like the most obvious answer, but your analysis seems to not take into account things like revolving door politics, regulatory capture, lobbyists priority access to lawmakers, citizens united, etc... etc... etc...

I don’t think most people would suggest that there is a small table surrounded by evil cackling billionaires conspiring to pull every single worldwide string, but rather there is a relatively small number of people who have enough money to buy themselves access to writing regulation and laws which favor their own interests which will often coincidentally align with the other billionaires who can afford this kind of access.

We can’t ignore the ways in which issues like this skew influence to a small number of powerful interests.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#226

Post by ridgeguy » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:26 AM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #201

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m skeptical that this happens much. It reeks of urban legend. Now, I’m sure some seniors do this, but I suspect it’s due mental issues rather than fiscal concerns. Is cat food even cheaper than really cheap canned food?

In my experience, nobody wants to hear this, but basic food is damn near free. I get it, I get it -- it's just a silly thing Sean Hannity says. It also happens to be true. Nobody has to eat cat food to save money. Have you priced beans and rice lately? It barely costs anything .

Beans and rice ≠ protein, and yes, carbs are giveaways. But that's not all good.

Anecdote here, but I knew two competent, capable seniors (each on Social Security) who in fact ate canned pet food because it was a source of meat that they otherwise couldn't afford. I doubt I knew the only two people in America who do that.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#227

Post by TheCoelacanth » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:31 AM UTC

skookumchuck wrote: post #195

> Those who don't have the cash on hand say they'd have to cover it by borrowing or selling something. Be careful about concluding that these people are poor. I'm not poor, and I have no cash. Everything is invested. Piling up cash in a savings account just means it'll get eaten away by inflation. This is hardly uncommon. If you've got a house with a large payment, you aren't poor, even though you may not have any ca…

That seems like an extremely foolish investment strategy. If you don't even have $400 in cash you can't even cover some minor unexpected car or house maintenance. Even a minor market correction at the same time as a month or two spent out of work could end up costing you many times more than you could lose in investment income by keeping a few months of expenses in cash..

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#228

Post by 0x4f3759df » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:32 AM UTC

johnm1019 wrote: post #2

I think we as a nation should consider this an issue of national security. This type of financial instability in such a large percentage of the population could lead to making short-sighted or bad decisions in tough times, increased violence, increased rates of incarceration (both of those increasing the cost of government for all), among many other things. The reasons for it are multi-faceted I'm sure. I hope voters…

There's just so many ways Americans are getting wrecked. College debt, housing crisis, terrible public transit, ruinous health care prices, and looming pension crisis that the government will have to print its way out of.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#229

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:33 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #192

maxsilver wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "According to statistical data from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the top 1% had an adjusted gross income of $465,626 or higher for the 2014 tax year." "Doctors, lawyers, and IT people making low six figures" have absolutely nothing to fear. And for the extremely few fortunate people who actually make more than half a million dollars each year, they will easily be able to afford the new taxes.

You really think the "populists" who want to "tax the rich" are going to stop At the 1%? It's not the 1% they despise - as evidence by the election - it's "the liberal west coast elites". The other 80% with households making less than $116K year would just as likely start taxing everyone who makes more than that. Have you noticed that most tax deductions that are designed to help the middle class phase out in the $12…

[deleted]

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#230

Post by ryanx435 » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:37 AM UTC

jabgrabdthrow wrote: post #222

ryanx435 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an even more childish comment. You think you can change how human nature fundamentally works? How naive. People are selfish and greedy. They always have been. They always will be. Any solution to a problem that relies on building "a new kind of social momentum" are ignorant at best and actively harmful at worst.

You sound like you’re trying to be edgy. Are Democracy and Polio Vaccines actively harmful? Parent comment is right.

Oh are we listing arbitrary inventions or historical events to prove our points?

People are selfish and greedy:

Subprime mortgage crisis

Enron

George Soros shorting the British pound

The entire Mongolian expansion and their culture of rape and pillaging

* Small time Nazi officers stealing Jewish people's wedding rings

* Too big to fail

* Literally any employment contract where people are laid less than market value.

* Thieves exist.

* Murderers exist

* Corruption exists

* Swindlers exist

I guess that acknowledging human nature is edgy now. Well, fuck it. I must be edgy then.