40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense • Hacker News Board

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#41

Post by gerdesj » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:40 PM UTC

"More concerning are the 25% of Americans with no retirement savings whatsoever, according to the report."

Is that true? What happens when those 25% retire or can no longer work? Ahh: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions... - not too bad - the US got a C, UK got a C+.

Now back to the headline: $400 in available readies? You do have to start measuring somewhere when looking into poverty but it is harder than it seems on the face of it. Many people will drain their balance regardless to zero or below, (nearly) no matter how well off. I recall being a youngish lad with an income of £30 per hour - let's realistically say ~£50,000 per annum (gross, pre IR45). At that point in my life, I too would often qualify for "can't find £350" right now. My real point is that you have to be really careful how you measure this sort of thing, ie trying to quantify bits of people's lives with simple pithy statements.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#42

Post by abritinthebay » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

StephenSmith wrote: post #13

There's a lot of negativity in this thread and the title is very sensational. The point that should be highlighted in the article - "The bright side? That's an improvement from half of adults being unable to cover such an expense in 2013. The number has been ticking down each year since."

That should be expected somewhat however due to it likely being a lagging indicator of the economic recovery.

It's still pretty terrible it a) got to that point b) is still at this point.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#43

Post by dv_dt » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #28

projectileboy wrote: post #4

Wealthy investors are happy to tell founders that a smaller percentage of a bigger pie is a better deal, but then seem not so happy to make their percentage smaller in order to increase the size of the pie for society at large.

Investors have to fight hard and endure a long time for every % of return. Society on the other hand will never be satisfied with their piece, they will always need more, and sooner not later.

IMHO, this is 180 degrees backwards. It feels like most of the financial industry now is focused on short term profit optimization over long term value growth. Long term investors are notable exceptions.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#44

Post by zeth___ » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #31

sjg007 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should but you know personal responsibility and all that jazz. The wealthy only care when the pitchforks come out. The biggest achievement of the wealthy has been to convince the middle class to eat itself.

But personal responsibility is actually an important concept. It is completely unacceptable to not have $400 on reserve for an emergency as a functioning adult. That is a situation that can only be achieved by poor decision making and a lack of personal responsibility. Any strategy that is employed to remedy this has to contend with the fact that the individuals who need to have this situation remedied for themselves…

Try being black in a ghetto.

What you mean is that a college educated young white male in his 20s/30s will have $400 in spare change around the house. Because we can't be bothered to keep track of $50 notes we keep around for pizza.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#45

Post by Florin_Andrei » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

johnm1019 wrote: post #2

I think we as a nation should consider this an issue of national security. This type of financial instability in such a large percentage of the population could lead to making short-sighted or bad decisions in tough times, increased violence, increased rates of incarceration (both of those increasing the cost of government for all), among many other things. The reasons for it are multi-faceted I'm sure. I hope voters…

I cannot possibly comprehend how could anyone consider this situation and go "yeah, this is surely stable in the long run".

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#46

Post by keithnz » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #31

sjg007 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should but you know personal responsibility and all that jazz. The wealthy only care when the pitchforks come out. The biggest achievement of the wealthy has been to convince the middle class to eat itself.

But personal responsibility is actually an important concept. It is completely unacceptable to not have $400 on reserve for an emergency as a functioning adult. That is a situation that can only be achieved by poor decision making and a lack of personal responsibility. Any strategy that is employed to remedy this has to contend with the fact that the individuals who need to have this situation remedied for themselves…

this is probablly a good pivot point for you to look at sociology. Because personal responsibility just doesn't magically happen. If you are not looking at what leads people into what you think is poor decision making and a lack of personal responsibility, you become part of the problem. The reality is, the social structures play a big part in this, and more problematically, you can't change it quickly.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#47

Post by yermom » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:44 PM UTC

xena wrote: post #39

ralusek wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But personal responsibility is actually an important concept. It is completely unacceptable to not have $400 on reserve for an emergency as a functioning adult. That is a situation that can only be achieved by poor decision making and a lack of personal responsibility. Any strategy that is employed to remedy this has to contend with the fact that the individuals who need to have this situation remedied for themselves…

What about people whose life situations constantly rip money out of them and their pay is just fundamentally insufficient to cover their expenses?

nah, they should just work harder

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#48

Post by integration » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:44 PM UTC

40% of America’s lowest-income families’ consumption goes to luxuries.

The bigger problem is American’s terrible spending habits not lack of real income.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/g...

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#49

Post by Florin_Andrei » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:44 PM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #31

sjg007 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should but you know personal responsibility and all that jazz. The wealthy only care when the pitchforks come out. The biggest achievement of the wealthy has been to convince the middle class to eat itself.

But personal responsibility is actually an important concept. It is completely unacceptable to not have $400 on reserve for an emergency as a functioning adult. That is a situation that can only be achieved by poor decision making and a lack of personal responsibility. Any strategy that is employed to remedy this has to contend with the fact that the individuals who need to have this situation remedied for themselves…

> It is completely unacceptable to not have $400 on reserve for an emergency as a functioning adult.

There's a lot of "let them eat cake instead" mentality in that statement.

Re: 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense

#50

Post by mattnewton » Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:45 PM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #31

sjg007 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should but you know personal responsibility and all that jazz. The wealthy only care when the pitchforks come out. The biggest achievement of the wealthy has been to convince the middle class to eat itself.

But personal responsibility is actually an important concept. It is completely unacceptable to not have $400 on reserve for an emergency as a functioning adult. That is a situation that can only be achieved by poor decision making and a lack of personal responsibility. Any strategy that is employed to remedy this has to contend with the fact that the individuals who need to have this situation remedied for themselves…

Bahaha, yes, if you make perfect decisions you will have over $400. The whole point is people don’t make perfect decisions. Should they become homeless when they get hurt as a result? Does that threat help them make better decisions? Does it help society to let a small problem escalate into a larger one like that? I’d answer a resounding no on all fronts.