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Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

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Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#91

Post by everdev »

ithkuil wrote: post #61
masklinn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly identical. lit-html uses ` `s and cloning, so that it doesn't have to do any expensive VDOM diffs. So… it's not doing reconciliations and is just replacing the entire tree on every render, losing things like cursor position and forcing the browser to re-render and re-layout the entire thing?

Highly recommended to watch https://youtu.be/Io6JjgckHbg

Great video!

Relevant part is at 8:30: "at first it will render the DOM and after that it will update what's already there"

Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#92

Post by aoeusnth1 »

ithkuil wrote: post #61
masklinn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly identical. lit-html uses ` `s and cloning, so that it doesn't have to do any expensive VDOM diffs. So… it's not doing reconciliations and is just replacing the entire tree on every render, losing things like cursor position and forcing the browser to re-render and re-layout the entire thing?

Highly recommended to watch https://youtu.be/Io6JjgckHbg

Thanks for the link, lit-HTML looks pretty neat.

Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#93

Post by sli »

curiousreacter wrote: post #7

Side question: Isn't it grossly inefficient that in Redux, you have reducers that return an entirely new state object? Wouldn't it be better to return some kind of data that represents just the diff you intend to make, like {op: INCREMENT, arg: 1, key: "Foo"}?

That is exactly what a Redux action returns. It's a representation of a diff against the current state. At some point though, that diff has to be applied in some form, either atomically (as currently) or through mutation. Actions trigger the reducer that applies the diff to the store.

Basically, I'm not certain exactly what you're getting at.

Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#94

Post by romanovcode »

RussianCow wrote: post #83
romanovcode wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even get why it is important that it's 1kb. Give me a library with great API and easy to use. Nobody cares if library is 1kb or 100kb (minified).

> Nobody cares if library is 1kb or 100kb (minified). You do if your app needs to be mobile-friendly. 100kb can easily add an extra second or two to the page load on a bad enough mobile connection.

Mobile google.com loads 200kb+ of javascript and I've never heard anyone complain about loading speeds for it.

Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#95

Post by newfoundglory »

romanovcode wrote: post #94
RussianCow wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody cares if library is 1kb or 100kb (minified). You do if your app needs to be mobile-friendly. 100kb can easily add an extra second or two to the page load on a bad enough mobile connection.

Mobile google.com loads 200kb+ of javascript and I've never heard anyone complain about loading speeds for it.

Loading time doesn't always result in complaints (that depends on the user's expectations) but has a significant effect on likelihood of repeat visits, length of visits, and amount of interaction.

Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#96

Post by newfoundglory »

ergo14 wrote: post #82
matte_black wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your problem with React is, is it the configuration?

React is a ghetto, basicly + vdom has its own size. IMO thing like hyperhtml or lit-html are the way forward - especially with new templating proposals. Not to mention react is not interoperable really with other solutions - I'd expect webcomponents win long term, since they are built into clients.

What does "a ghetto" mean here? None of the definitions I know seem to fit.

Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#97

Post by romanovcode »

brlewis wrote: post #87
RussianCow wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody cares if library is 1kb or 100kb (minified). You do if your app needs to be mobile-friendly. 100kb can easily add an extra second or two to the page load on a bad enough mobile connection.

It isn't just on bad connections: https://medium.com/dev-channel/the-cost-of-javascript-84009f...

Article has 300kb+ of javascript on mobile, loads pretty fast on 3G. I don't know what you're talking about.

Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#98

Post by dang »

cpburns2009 wrote: post #76
dang wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment violates both the site guidelines ("Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work.") and the Show HN guidelines: see "In Comments" in https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html .

Understood. I'll refrain from such comments in the future.

Appreciated!

Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#99

Post by TooBrokeToBeg »

newfoundglory wrote: post #96
ergo14 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React is a ghetto, basicly + vdom has its own size. IMO thing like hyperhtml or lit-html are the way forward - especially with new templating proposals. Not to mention react is not interoperable really with other solutions - I'd expect webcomponents win long term, since they are built into clients.

What does "a ghetto" mean here? None of the definitions I know seem to fit.

> http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/ruby/rails/is-a-ghetto

> https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/02/will-t...

> https://jelastic.com/blog/functional-programming-is-a-ghetto...

The concept is that placing a focus on a specific technology is a path to decay (poverty, obsolescence, self-destruction, etc).

Re: Show HN: HyperApp – 1k JavaScript framework for building web applications

#100

Post by lhorie »

romanovcode wrote: post #75
ninjaturtles wrote: post #62

I've seen "Show HN: HyperApp" type of submissions at least 5 times earlier. Congrats, you made a 1Kb JS library. Please stop spamming HN though. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=hyperapp&sort=byPopularity&pre...

I don't even get why it is important that it's 1kb. Give me a library with great API and easy to use. Nobody cares if library is 1kb or 100kb (minified).

Don't assume that everyone is happy with whatever level of mediocrity _you_ think is acceptable. It's because of developers prioritizing developer experience and other baggage over user experience that I despise my mobile web surfing experience.

Plenty of people do care about frontend performance (as evidenced by the plethora of efforts ranging from small alt vdom libs by solo devs to large corporate efforts like AMP or m.uber.com[1])

[1] https://eng.uber.com/m-uber/

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