Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#21

Post by java-man » Tue, May 22, 2018, 1:52 PM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #18

PedroBatista wrote: post #15

It's been a sad couple of years for people who grew up with Jurassic Park and now realize those scary beasts are just a bunch of mutant chickens.

Just wait until they realize that these were not warm blooded animals and thus the large ones, including T-Rex, would have moved slower than large African animals (probably a lot slower), the fastest of which are about half as fast as normal human running speeds. for the same reason, our stamina should also be vastly superior to dinosaurs. If we just simply keep walking after running away, dinosaurs will never catch…

I recall reading a paper where they inferred the dinosaur body temperature from Ca isotope ratio in a tooth. Came closer to warm blooded than cold blooded. Interesting research too.

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#22

Post by java-man » Tue, May 22, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

java-man wrote: post #21

candiodari wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until they realize that these were not warm blooded animals and thus the large ones, including T-Rex, would have moved slower than large African animals (probably a lot slower), the fastest of which are about half as fast as normal human running speeds. for the same reason, our stamina should also be vastly superior to dinosaurs. If we just simply keep walking after running away, dinosaurs will never catch…

I recall reading a paper where they inferred the dinosaur body temperature from Ca isotope ratio in a tooth. Came closer to warm blooded than cold blooded. Interesting research too.

Here is the link:

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2011/06/22/scien...

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#23

Post by candiodari » Tue, May 22, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

anfilt wrote: post #9

ggg9990 wrote: post #5

Consequences be damned, if I could make Jurassic Park, I would.

If we are able to get any DNA out amber that would be amazing. From what I understand DNA is not stable for that long. If we are able to get any DNA it would probably be inferred some microscopic structures or something left behind from the DNA. However, even then I doubt it would be complete. So why it would be amazing it would just be tiny fragments of DNA. I doubt we will even get a tiny fragment. So highly doubt…

DNA has a half-life. If you find 100gr of "intact" cells, it's not going to be a problem to extract the DNA.

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#24

Post by candiodari » Tue, May 22, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #19

candiodari wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until they realize that these were not warm blooded animals and thus the large ones, including T-Rex, would have moved slower than large African animals (probably a lot slower), the fastest of which are about half as fast as normal human running speeds. for the same reason, our stamina should also be vastly superior to dinosaurs. If we just simply keep walking after running away, dinosaurs will never catch…

Central bearded dragon's are ~1lb reptiles and can do 25MPH which is faster than most people. So, at least predator dinosaurs where likely faster than most people. We might do fine over long distances, but overall we are fairly slow. As to being warm blooded, that's less meaningful for very large creatures. Body feathers are also a sign something is trying to conserve body heat which is a sign it's warm blooded.

Trained humans can maintain a speed of ~20kph for hours (as in plural). Peak speed for a few seconds (which is what would be required to escape these animals if reaction time is not the problem) is ~50 kph for humans (but only for 10 meters or so).

Apples to apples, humans are far superior to these speeds. The best animals for these measurements do crush these figures (by a factor of ~3), but I would expect that the best dinosaurs wouldn't.

> Very large animals are effectively warm blooded by default due to volume to surface ratios cooling is a much larger problem than staying warm.

True, but being "very large" does not really help with either top speed or explosive power. The fastest animals are small (though not tiny, a decent-not-huge dog in size but much lighter) brittle little things. They chase, rapidly inflict a mortal wound, and run away, waiting until it is abandoned to eat. Fast animals, from cheetahs to rabbits are much lighter than their appearance would suggest. The animals with greatest endurance are larger, but humans are, perhaps surprisingly, pretty good at endurance. Clearly we, at one point, hunted like dogs do : not by outsprinting an animal in an intense fast chase, but by wearing it down for hours, slowly closing in for the kill. Most animals should not be able to escape humans using that strategy. Human hunters would make an animal sprint for it's life 10 times, letting it "escape" 9 times.

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#25

Post by candiodari » Tue, May 22, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

java-man wrote: post #22

java-man wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall reading a paper where they inferred the dinosaur body temperature from Ca isotope ratio in a tooth. Came closer to warm blooded than cold blooded. Interesting research too.

Here is the link: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2011/06/22/scien...

Very interesting. This would only apply to the largest of dinosaurs though, wouldn't it ? The kind that's just not ever going to chase anything.

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#26

Post by 52-6F-62 » Tue, May 22, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

anfilt wrote: post #9

ggg9990 wrote: post #5

Consequences be damned, if I could make Jurassic Park, I would.

If we are able to get any DNA out amber that would be amazing. From what I understand DNA is not stable for that long. If we are able to get any DNA it would probably be inferred some microscopic structures or something left behind from the DNA. However, even then I doubt it would be complete. So why it would be amazing it would just be tiny fragments of DNA. I doubt we will even get a tiny fragment. So highly doubt…

Isn't that why they used frogs DNA? To finish incomplete sequences as a heuristic?

Also: life uh... uh finds a way.

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#27

Post by java-man » Tue, May 22, 2018, 2:34 PM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #25

java-man wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the link: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2011/06/22/scien...

Very interesting. This would only apply to the largest of dinosaurs though, wouldn't it ? The kind that's just not ever going to chase anything.

quite possibly, although the effect might still be there. extant bumblebees warm themselves up after crawling outside on the cold morning by buzzing their wings.

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#28

Post by Retric » Tue, May 22, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #24

Retric wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central bearded dragon's are ~1lb reptiles and can do 25MPH which is faster than most people. So, at least predator dinosaurs where likely faster than most people. We might do fine over long distances, but overall we are fairly slow. As to being warm blooded, that's less meaningful for very large creatures. Body feathers are also a sign something is trying to conserve body heat which is a sign it's warm blooded.

Trained humans can maintain a speed of ~20kph for hours (as in plural). Peak speed for a few seconds (which is what would be required to escape these animals if reaction time is not the problem) is ~50 kph for humans (but only for 10 meters or so). Apples to apples, humans are far superior to these speeds. The best animals for these measurements do crush these figures (by a factor of ~3), but I would expect that the…

The drastic difference between 12mph and 25mph is where our problems would show up. Many predators can do 20+ mph for long enough to eat us. Polar Bear's top out at around 25MPH but they can sustain that long enough that the safe distance is around 1/2 mile. Brown Bear's are worse making running a bad idea.

Endurance hunting is far more effective in very high temperatures so it's use as likely limited.

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#29

Post by DiffEq » Tue, May 22, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

PedroBatista wrote: post #15

It's been a sad couple of years for people who grew up with Jurassic Park and now realize those scary beasts are just a bunch of mutant chickens.

Although true, it really is a matter of perspective. If you were June bug, or any bug, running into a chicken would be a frightful and terrifying prospect.

Re: Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

#30

Post by zimpenfish » Tue, May 22, 2018, 2:58 PM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #24

Retric wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central bearded dragon's are ~1lb reptiles and can do 25MPH which is faster than most people. So, at least predator dinosaurs where likely faster than most people. We might do fine over long distances, but overall we are fairly slow. As to being warm blooded, that's less meaningful for very large creatures. Body feathers are also a sign something is trying to conserve body heat which is a sign it's warm blooded.

Trained humans can maintain a speed of ~20kph for hours (as in plural). Peak speed for a few seconds (which is what would be required to escape these animals if reaction time is not the problem) is ~50 kph for humans (but only for 10 meters or so). Apples to apples, humans are far superior to these speeds. The best animals for these measurements do crush these figures (by a factor of ~3), but I would expect that the…

> Trained humans can maintain a speed of ~20kph for hours

The very best humans can only manage ~20kph for 2.05 hours (WR: 42.2km in 2:02:57 giving 20.59kph). Beyond that, the 50km WR is down to 18.3kph; 100km WR is 16.1kph; etc.