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Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

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Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#461

Post by spronkey »

saagarjha wrote: post #318
dingaling wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this one tool is 'only' $60 per year[0]. But what if your compiler moved to subscription, and your text editor and your e-mail client and ... It's the thousand-cuts problem. And once you start on that path you can't go back, or else the tool stops working. [0] which is a substantial chunk of a day's after-tax pay for many people in the UK, for example. 1/400th of their salary for a password database.

> And once you start on that path you can't go back, or else the tool stops working. How would you feel about a subscription service that guaranteed updates? Essentially, upgrade pricing, but charged every month.

So, you have a perpetual license to use the latest version of the software that you paid for?

Perfect.

... But JetBrains attempted to explain why this doesn't work with the subscription model. And failed IMO, but regardless.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#462

Post by spronkey »

dingaling wrote: post #288
cdumler wrote: post #123

So, I'll join the chorus here by saying that I've picked up the subscription fee. I've been using their software daily for over three years. During that time, they have consistently improved their product and have been open about issues (as far as I am concerned). I was a little irked when I saw the subscription model. I was like, "hey, I paid for this." So, I looked up how much I paid in licenses by looking them up.…

Well this one tool is 'only' $60 per year[0]. But what if your compiler moved to subscription, and your text editor and your e-mail client and ... It's the thousand-cuts problem. And once you start on that path you can't go back, or else the tool stops working. [0] which is a substantial chunk of a day's after-tax pay for many people in the UK, for example. 1/400th of their salary for a password database.

You're absolutely right. I use over 400 tools. I'd be completely broke if I had to subscribe to them all.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#463

Post by spronkey »

chrischen wrote: post #239
gkoberger wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a counterpoint: If someone pays $40 for, say, 1Password 5, they have no incentive to upgrade. It works well enough, and there's no reason to pay again. So, 1Password is stuck supporting a legacy product (and servers / APIs for it), the user is frustrated by an old version of the software, and the company gets no money so they're at risk of folding (which would hurt both the customer and 1Password). I agree tha…

They should not be supporting new features on old versions, and 1Password does not require servers or APIs. If you are paying for their cloud hosting then that is a justifiable subscription cost, but I’m already use Dropbox. They should be supporting security updates and this should be built into their costs. Security updates represent flaws in their product. If the user is frustrated by an old oversion and looks to…

Yes. This.

But don't forget compatibility updates. Underlying platforms change all the time, it makes sense for users to have to pay for these updates outside a certain time period.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#464

Post by spronkey »

gkoberger wrote: post #228
chrischen wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you feel like you underpaid. Then the solution is for them to charge more or charge for more of their products, not a subscription. A subscription basically forces you into paying for upgrades. The only thing a subscription model is good for is it wrestes power from the consumer. With the traditional model if they decide to stop updating the app, you wouldn’t buy the next version, and that would be you…

Here's a counterpoint: If someone pays $40 for, say, 1Password 5, they have no incentive to upgrade. It works well enough, and there's no reason to pay again. So, 1Password is stuck supporting a legacy product (and servers / APIs for it), the user is frustrated by an old version of the software, and the company gets no money so they're at risk of folding (which would hurt both the customer and 1Password). I agree tha…

They're not stuck supporting it. The original purchase can come with an amount of support. If the user needs more, they can pay for more.

This is how software worked for multiple decades before subscriptions came about.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#465

Post by spronkey »

pktgen wrote: post #341
roustem wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can look at it from a different perspective. The customer could pay $5 and then cancel the subscription if they do not like the service. With the license purchase they have to make a large commitment upfront.

In the old days with perpetually-licensed software, this was handled with a trial period (30-day demo or similar), or, where feasible, a feature-limited demo version (e.g. a game with one level as a demo). This is not a new problem or a problem without solutions.

[To play devil's advocate:] which were often cracked and released as warez...

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#466

Post by spronkey »

Pulcinella wrote: post #132
makecheck wrote: post #103

There are at least two elements to software maintenance: one is adding truly new features, and the other is making stupid changes just to keep old features working as they always did (often due to platform or hardware changes, especially with Apple!). I see Apple coughing up none of the costs that they create by regularly fiddling with their platforms and hardware in breaking ways, yet that is a big reason why softwa…

Yes. I feel that, because of the currently constantly changing nature of hardware and software platforms, subscriptions are going to be the only way of sustaining a business. It’s no longer even software as a service, but software IS a service. The only exceptions are situations where hardware and platforms change slowly or not at all. e.g. Single player video games (and even that is largely consoles), certain kinds…

I hope that it's only a matter of time before people start turning their pitchforks at Apple, Microsoft, maybe Google et al who are the perpetrators of the majority of this platform fiddling that stops software from working.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#467

Post by wilsonnb »

spronkey wrote: post #460
pktgen wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - It's unreasonable to expect people to pay the full price for minor security fixes that still need to go out The ideal model for locally-run software, in my opinion, is to sell perpetual licenses to each major version for a one-time cost and promise security and maintenance updates for a certain period. New features can go into new major versions that users have to pay for (sometimes with discounted upgrade pricin…

Ugh, this trend of 'cloud sync' is highly annoying. Let me put an encrypted file on something that resembles a filesystem. If I want cloud sync, I'll put that file on Dropbox/OneDrive/GDrive/Whatever else. It's only become a big thing after iOS and it's lack-of-a-filesystem and lack of inter-app data flows locked users out of their own devices. Quite often I don't want many of the "new features". For me, bug fixes an…

It's become a big thing because it's convenient. Every time I sign into 1Password on any of my devices, all of my passwords are there. I don't need an account with Google, Dropbox, or Microsoft for it to work and I don't need to do any manual setup. It "just works", which is exactly what the average person wants their software to do.

Manually dealing with files is a sign of poor software design for simple use cases, in my opinion. I quite like the iOS model that abstracts the idea of a filesystem away from the user because the user never cared about the file system anyways. They just had to deal with it to do whatever they really wanted to do.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#468

Post by wilsonnb »

DavideNL wrote: post #207
bpicolo wrote: post #41

While I could understand people being upset about this, I pay for a 1password family subscription. It really is a terrific investment. As far as subscription services go it's about the best bang for my buck that I get. A sustainable service model is important for something I rely on so much - especially something that needs to keep on security lockdown. Also makes it easy for the family to share hulu, netflix, whatno…

I wonder if it's so much better than for example Bitwarden for families, which is $1/month. ( https://bitwarden.com ) Also, the switch to the "1password cloud", instead of the already freely available iCloud/Google Cloud/Dropbox etc, just seems like a move to make people believe their expensive subscription are justified. There was absolutely no demand for a "1password cloud". This entire push to subscription-hell ma…

There was plenty of demand for a "1password cloud" as you call it. It's one of my favorite features.

I like that I don't need a Dropbox, Google Drive, iCloud, OneDrive, etc. subscription for 1Password to work. It's convenient.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#469

Post by AGKyle »

Groxx wrote: post #444
AGKyle wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll clarify for you then :) I'm a developer on our Apple team (Mac and iOS). If you purchase a subscription you can create standalone vaults and sync them to Dropbox, iCloud, WLAN or Folder just as if you had purchased a license. You'll have both an account (which has vaults in it) and standalone local vaults that can be synced as above. This is how it behaves in version 6 and nothing has changed with this in versio…

Android is important to me, so I'm still curious there, but yes! Perfectly clear. At least on Android it's fairly easy to make a new IME and just use my background dropbox syncer, so I have a backup plan if needed.

Only one standalone vault is allowed for Android, it doesn't have multiple vault support.

However if you have an active subscription to 1Password.com it will unlock the Pro features for that single standalone vault. So it behaves similarly to how 1Password for iOS does in this regard. The difference is that 1Password for iOS supports multiple vaults.

Hope that helps!

Kyle

AgileBits

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#470

Post by mitchty »

frio wrote: post #451
mitchty wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw all that but it looks like you've got to pay a monthly fee for full access for their cloud storage. Not sure its worth the hassle of migrating to in this case.

It's $1/month to support open source software. That's not a bad price. You can also choose to use their hosting for free too; I was doing that for a few months before fully adopting it.

I already pay lastpass $12/year. Not sure its worth the hassle to convert all my login information.
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